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From a logistics standpoint, the process of getting custom uniforms designed/approved/ordered would have to have started WELL before ISU sign-ups, let alone when the participants were listed weeks later. This was more the point I was trying o make earlier. Morton, (and the top-tier programs like them,) are likely doing everything they can to improve and raise their ceiling every year, regardless of who else is at any competition.

This is not the only reason, nor was it the only reason students were told. They would not design an entire seasons show around one band showing up to one new competition. If you look at majority of finalist BOA bands themed/ coordinating uniforms are a trend, and I think they really add to visual side. Morton's show would not have felt as cohesive with their old grey and red uniforms in a show that was themed blue and white.

Idk, at the very least that's what they seemed to tell the band.

Doubtful, but if true what a stupid idea.

From what I understand, after they learned O'Fallon would be at ISU, that is when they decided to bring a higher emphasis on visual, namely the uniform change.

Could you please elaborate? I'm genuinely curious about the sequence of events. And what does "revamp their program" mean? I assume Morton and every other band is trying to be their best each season, regardless of what other bands may or may not be attending any specific competitions.

Morton did revamp their program when they learned O'Fallon would be at ISU, so they are definitely trying to shoot for them.

I think that Morton might see Normal as their closest competitor (in terms of local competition). Otherwise why wouldn’t they be aiming for O’Fallon every year?

Obviously, no one is compelled to agree with my perspective but I would argue that yes, students are motivated in this activity be competition. They put in hard work and blood, sweat, and tears to compete and perform. Frankly, I don't care what directors do and don't do, a great band requires motivation from the performers and that motivation, in my opinion, is, at least partially, dependent on the competition aspect of this activity. When I say a competitive Galesburg could make Morton that much better, I don't mean Morton isn't good...that is a down right ridiculous notion and I would neve suggest that. I mean the drive that students get from healthy competition is increased and thus their intensity on the field increases. I think students have a want to learn and a want to improve but competition provides a fulfillment for all the hard work and time invested. Why compete if it doesn't give you any payoff?

Not to mention O’Fallon’s sound system failed during their sax quartet ☹️

I've never really understood this thinking - that bands that have shown us over the years that they are very good and care a lot about being good at the BOA level need another band locally to push them just to get to the next level. Could that be true if two bands are in the same talent/competitive success range and were trying to stay ahead of the other? Sure. Could that be true if a "big" band became complacent and an up-and-coming band started nipping at their heels? Absolutely. But the idea that a Morton/LW/OTHS needs someone local to get better to push them implies that those bands don't know what else is out there nationally on the competitive landscape. O'Fallon didn't miss finals at Nats because they didn't get "pushed" enough locally - they missed because there are REALLY good programs at Nats and they didn't have their best runs at semis. Morton doesn't need Galesburg to get better to reach the next level - they need 40 more kids (half of which are guard) that play and spin as well as the ones who are there now, they just need more of them. Is LW going to get worse now without a Lockport there in their back yard? The idea may be true for some bands in some situations somewhere, but I don't think it moves the needle much at the top - those programs know what they need to do to reach the "next" level.

That is an interesting opinion. Band directors are constantly looking at what other programs are doing. They look at what other programs are doing or have done to achieve success and try to apply it to their own programs. I know most band directors are constantly talking to each other about what they are doing at their schools. On top of that, without competition, I’d argue that the incentive to improve your program would be far less. Does this mean a director should base their successes off how other groups perform? Absolutely not. At the end of the day, if your program grows from the beginning of the season to the end, then that is success in my book. But also knowing that there are other programs of a similar caliber attempting to “dethrone” you is always going to be motivation to continue to work hard. It’s human nature. I would also argue that band directors only hold so much control in how their program grows. Students tend to be more highly motivated by competition. At the end of the day, a director can give students the tools to be successful, but the students have to be willing to apply those tools. Frequently, students who feel they have more competition will feel more motivated to work hard as well. That’s just my opinion though.

I couldn't disagree more. Band directors do not concern themselves with what other schools are doing.

I think you have a Morton, Lincoln-Way, and O'Fallon who would benefit competitively from more substantial Illinois programs. This is only theory but can be applied well to Texas and Indiana bands. If Morton had a Galesburg that could rival them for 2A at ISU, I think they would play at a caliber that would make them more prolific at BOA. Similarly, if O'Fallon had an Edwardsville that was rivaling them at regionals, they too might be a higher caliber band as well. The same idea can (and was) applied to Lincoln-Way when they had a competitive Lockport to contend with. Friendly competition amongst marching band motivates students, I know it did when I was marching years ago. It makes practices more focused and motivated and performances more intense and competitive. But you have to have mid-tier programs (like the ones I mentioned) or other similar programs increase each year and build more and more competitive shows.

Is there anyone you would like to see more involved in BOA outside of the frequent flyers rn

Sure, we've got Marian and Morton who can place in class nationally, win their class at regionals and Morton who can make finals, Lincoln-Way, who placed 6th and 14th at regionals this year, O'Fallon, who was 3rd in class at St. Louis, 5th in finals, and 22nd at Grand Nationals, Prospect in 27th place in St. Louis, and Normal winning their class and placing 9th at a weaker than usual Iowa regional. Outside of that, that does not constitute a "powerhouse" to me.

Never. it never makes sense, we should just count ourselves lucky to be witnessing a general improvement among Illinois bands across the board, with bands shooting for class victories in semis, and placements in finals, even if the state doesn't stack up amazingly against BOA as of now. I predict Illinois will once again be a powerhouse at BOA competitions in the near (but not too near) future.

Fwiw. Going back to schedule discussion, 2nd Grey Ghost Classic has settled in on the 10/03 date https://www.ivcbands.com/greyghostclassic

Not to disagree at all, but when does marching band make sense?

So just so I'm clear - on the Grand Nats thread you said that "there are no great bands in IL right now," so, no sense in going to a BOA, right? But also ISU overall title doesn't mean anything? So they shouldn't prioritize going there either? But then you seem to imply if LW doesn't show then the ISU Grand Champ has less legitimacy? But also their 3 HS "experiment" has been disappointing? I dunno man, if LW isn't really that good and Morton isn't really that good and the 3 bands that made semis at Nats (as many or more than any states that aren't Texas I believe...) aren't really that good then I guess I don't know marching band as well as I thought I did.

Morton did finish behind the 6th place ISU finisher at Grand Nationals, so I am not sure that anything is a certainty. The overall titles don't really seem to mean that much anymore anyway. Whether O’Fallon or LW show, any number of other bands could take ISU. Not worth scheduling simply for that. Would be a poor idea. That said, the two groups with the longest ISU class champion streaks could be theoretically attend both events and ditch one of the finals performance / exhibition opportunities.

I wonder how many programs that are probable non-finalists at one of the Supers will ask for a Friday performance slot and then go perform at ISU the next day. Makes for a long weekend but certainly could be done.

I think this is my (admittedly cynical) sticking point - IF we could get shows on a common sheet (BOA would be great) with better judges, (or at least different or more diverse,) then that would be great. I'm just not sure that those things are given that one leads to the other leads to tapes that give IL groups better feedback going into national competitions. There are plenty of shows using BOA sheets now, but if the judges they hire don't really know how to use the rubric... then what's the point? Want to bring in judges that know the sheets? That's all fine until the band that had been doing just fine scoring in the low 70s at their local shows gets a 61 because that's where they fall in the rubric. And we've not even gotten into the part where we figure out how we're paying for all of this.

I also think that there could be a lot more buy in from communities and Administration if there was a recognized circuit. Instead of having to explain every year to principals and onlookers, "ISU is our state this year". People know what UIL is - there is no "well there is no such thing as state, but U of I is the closest thing to it." Having a recognized trophy to bring back to the school (or 2nd, 3rd, etc) would be a way to recognize music programs more, give them praise, and perhaps additional funding.

This is what I want. I want more nationally recognized judges being brought into the state. A band shouldn't see several of the same judges 3,4,5 times a season in Illinois.