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Dan Balash

ISU 2008

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The state finals competition at ISU

The problem is that no body oversees marching band in Illinois so neither ISU finals or U of I are recognized as the official marching band 'State' competition.

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The problem is that no body oversees marching band in Illinois so neither ISU finals or U of I are recognized as the official marching band 'State' competition.

 

Very true. You also can't say ISU state finals because you are still missing bands like Hersey that don't go to ISU.

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The problem is that no body oversees marching band in Illinois so neither ISU finals or U of I are recognized as the official marching band 'State' competition.

 

Very true. You also can't say ISU state finals because you are still missing bands like Hersey that don't go to ISU.

You cant win if you dont choose to go.

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I would think that Chris Barnum had to overcome a fair amount of opposition from some corners in order to bring his band to ISU this year and my guess is that they're coming to win it. Just think, if Prospect can win both ISU and U of I, they can, pretty justifiably, claim to be No. 1 in Illinois. Not sure who will be able to stop them this early in the season.

 

No - If Prospect wins ISU and U of I - they can not lay claim to be #1 in IL.

 

Have you checked out Marian's track record at Grand Nationals?

 

When the season is all said and done - no one is better than Marian - and only Lake Park was one year here and there when Snoeck was director. Marian has the best marching band in IL, hands down.

That is difficult to argue with. Their past record does speak for itself!

I agree with you in saying that Marion has a great band. The way I see it, though, is that whoever got first in state is the #1 band until someone takes that title away from them. But that's just how I see it. I'm sure everyone has their own thoughts on it.

It used to be that Lake Park and Marian were the powerhouses and Prospect and Lincoln-Way were more on the fringes of that level regionally and nationally. Now, it's clear that Marian Catholic is the finest band each year.

 

Illinois State and U of I are mid-season checkpoints and nothing more. No one can or should try reading more into state results other than trying to predict how those results bode for future weeks and the bands' prospects at shows with higher regional and national competition.

 

So, Prospect wins? Lake Park wins? Lincoln-Way East wins? Marian Catholic wins?

 

All I know is that LWE placed first last season and barely cracked finals at BOA Regionals Indianapolis, with what I thought was a fine show. The point here is that the cream invariably rises to the top.

 

At least until another band takes those next steps, it's still Marian Catholic.. then everyone else. Arguing against them is silly.

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This is one of those never-ending debates

 

Kinda. But also kinda not.

 

As far as I'm concerned, ISU is the state competition. It has the best bands, and even in the screwiest ISU judging years the judging is still light years ahead of U of I.

 

Sure, there's no organizing body that designates which one is "state", but ISU is as close as Illinois is going to get until you get that organizing body.

 

The only reasonable argument I've heard for ISU not being state was because Prospect wasn't there. Now that that's not an issue any more, ISU is Illinois' "state" competition as far as I'm concerned.

 

Whether or not it truly represents the best band in the state is kinda pointless, because even in Indiana you may have Carmel win the state competition, and then Avon go and score higher than them at BOA Grand Nationals, so I'd say it's more of a snapshot of a particular weekend (as any competition should truly be viewed anyway.

 

You cant win if you dont choose to go.

 

I laughed out loud when I read this, but I tend to agree. Especially if U of I and ISU aren't on the same weekend. I think it's silly to argue that ISU isn't the state competition because Hersey decided they didn't want to go that weekend. And to be honest, I'm not sure Hersey would get the top spot any year, which is a different thing than what we've seen with Prospect in years past.

 

TIFWIW.

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I'm not sure Hersey would get the top spot any year, which is a different thing than what we've seen with Prospect in years past.

 

So you must have forgotten that Hersey beat them a couple years ago? :)

 

Whoever wins ISU is "the best marching band in IL on Oct XX."

 

They are not necessarily the #1 IL marching band. That's a general, more broad term, and Marian holds it, period.

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So you must have forgotten that Hersey beat them a couple years ago?

 

Nah, I didn't forget that. I also didn't forget that Effingham beat Prospect in music last year at U of I. :blink:

 

 

Whoever wins ISU is "the best marching band in IL on Oct XX."

 

They are not necessarily the #1 IL marching band. That's a general, more broad term, and Marian holds it, period.

 

Totally 100% true. Until somebody's able to sustain the sort of success Marian has had late in the season, it's laughable to suggest otherwise. Marian's on a different planet later in the season.

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...I'd say it's more of a snapshot of a particular weekend (as any competition should truly be viewed anyway. ...

I would have to agree with Robes because a band could "clean up" in one competition and completely bomb their next show. So, I dont think it matters what we call the "state competition" because the band that wins is only the band that had the best show on that particular day.

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I always viewed ISU as the State Championship, it's not like there are any major compeitions like ISU after ISU in the great state of Illinois. Just because Prospect didn't show up means nothing. It's their choice.

 

and now a little off subject

 

After the "debacle" that was U of I last year, I heard some band's were not going to show up to this year, but that sentiment has seemed to change, did U of I change their scoring system perhaps?

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After the "debacle" that was U of I last year, I heard some band's were not going to show up to this year, but that sentiment has seemed to change, did U of I change their scoring system perhaps?

Not that I have heard..... But they did promise no cement saws or construction.....!

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I always viewed ISU as the State Championship, it's not like there are any major compeitions like ISU after ISU in the great state of Illinois. Just because Prospect didn't show up means nothing. It's their choice.

 

and now a little off subject

 

After the "debacle" that was U of I last year, I heard some band's were not going to show up to this year, but that sentiment has seemed to change, did U of I change their scoring system perhaps?

I've always viewed the Pekin Competition as the State Championship. Just because all the other bands don't show means nothing, it's their choice.

 

all sarcasm aside. The problem is that there is no State Championship. Because the State is not in charge of the ISU championships... they are the Illiniois State UNIVERSITY Marching competitions... not the State of Illinois Marching Championships.

 

You can consider the ISU competition the State Championship for you, that's fine that's your opinion. But no one can call any band the state champions or best band in the state based on this one competition.

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As someone who's been around for about 15 years in this whole marching band scene in IL, I've definitely viewed the ISU competition as the definitive state championships. Not only is the judging system at ISU just plain better than the U of I, but the judges at the ISU competition are usually of much higher quality. Not only that, but having an actual FINALS makes it much more legit as an actual championships rather than a random competition.

 

That being said, ISU if FAR from being perfect. And will remain so unless they at some point choose to go to better sheets, and figure things out from there.

 

The only solution is one I don't know if everyone would go for, and I would LOVE to be part of the process.

 

As much as I disagree with all his plans, what George Hopkins uses for the USSBA in normalizing competitions structures seems to work.

 

If we could find a way to organize independently (because IHSA isn't getting involved, and it's been tried, often) the same sheet throughout the state at all competitions, and to either hold an official state finals with the top X bands ranked at the end of the season, or to leave it as an open invite like ISU, but use previous scores from other competitions to seed performance times, and keep the finals structure that we have come to know and love from ISU.

 

Any ideas or anyone want to get on board? I have thought about this for quite a while, and believe that some of the people on this message board would be good for the activity and for the planning stages, as well as the application of it.

 

There would be a TON of things to make happen, but wouldn't it be nice to have something real and legit to finally end this debate?

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As someone who's been around for about 15 years in this whole marching band scene in IL, I've definitely viewed the ISU competition as the definitive state championships. Not only is the judging system at ISU just plain better than the U of I, but the judges at the ISU competition are usually of much higher quality. Not only that, but having an actual FINALS makes it much more legit as an actual championships rather than a random competition.

 

That being said, ISU if FAR from being perfect. And will remain so unless they at some point choose to go to better sheets, and figure things out from there.

 

The only solution is one I don't know if everyone would go for, and I would LOVE to be part of the process.

 

As much as I disagree with all his plans, what George Hopkins uses for the USSBA in normalizing competitions structures seems to work.

 

If we could find a way to organize independently (because IHSA isn't getting involved, and it's been tried, often) the same sheet throughout the state at all competitions, and to either hold an official state finals with the top X bands ranked at the end of the season, or to leave it as an open invite like ISU, but use previous scores from other competitions to seed performance times, and keep the finals structure that we have come to know and love from ISU.

 

Any ideas or anyone want to get on board? I have thought about this for quite a while, and believe that some of the people on this message board would be good for the activity and for the planning stages, as well as the application of it.

 

There would be a TON of things to make happen, but wouldn't it be nice to have something real and legit to finally end this debate?

I totally agree. Something legit would be very nice.

 

If I had it my way, I'd have the top 5 or 10 bands in each state go onto a national semi, quarter, and finals competition. That way we could end the BOA debate as well. That hasn't been on here as far as I know but I've heard it before. It's pretty much the same as the state one. People use the same arguments but it's BOA instead.

 

That's just my thoughts on it.

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As much as I disagree with all his plans, what George Hopkins uses for the USSBA in normalizing competitions structures seems to work.

 

While USSBA is fine in its own right, there are too many issues with the sheets and way too many classes. I'm not sure you would want to go in the direction of a "feel good" state contest.

 

Following something similar to ISSMA, MCBA or KMEA might be a better route to go.

 

If Illinois decides to go in the direction of something more organized, I think it would be a great thing....but should happen from the directors of Illinois.

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As much as I disagree with all his plans, what George Hopkins uses for the USSBA in normalizing competitions structures seems to work.

 

While USSBA is fine in its own right, there are too many issues with the sheets and way too many classes. I'm not sure you would want to go in the direction of a "feel good" state contest.

 

Following something similar to ISSMA, MCBA or KMEA might be a better route to go.

 

If Illinois decides to go in the direction of something more organized, I think it would be a great thing....but should happen from the directors of Illinois.

It would be nice if it came from the directors, but I don't see it happening any time soon if ever.

 

And as for the sheets that USSBA uses, i wouldn't use them, I'd use the BOA sheets, as they seem closer to what marching band really needs to focus on.

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As much as I disagree with all his plans, what George Hopkins uses for the USSBA in normalizing competitions structures seems to work.

 

While USSBA is fine in its own right, there are too many issues with the sheets and way too many classes. I'm not sure you would want to go in the direction of a "feel good" state contest.

 

Following something similar to ISSMA, MCBA or KMEA might be a better route to go.

 

If Illinois decides to go in the direction of something more organized, I think it would be a great thing....but should happen from the directors of Illinois.

It would be nice if it came from the directors, but I don't see it happening any time soon if ever.

 

And as for the sheets that USSBA uses, i wouldn't use them, I'd use the BOA sheets, as they seem closer to what marching band really needs to focus on.

Im not saying that the USSBA sheets have a bad "focus"..I'm not sure what you mean by that. The problem with USSBA sheets is that there is a sliding scale from week to week which means that scores automatically have to go up week after week even if a band has no improvement. Scores also tend to be too high in regard to a bands true performance because the 'boxes' are a bit tighter in the middle.

 

While some people have different opinions on judges being on the field, USSBA only had a music judge that is supposed to stay on the track. Seems difficult to get a sampling of individual players that way, especially in larger bands. Furthermore, there is no visual judge on the field (or track in this case).

 

Again, I'm not sure I understand what you mean by, "closer to what marching band really needs to focus on." USSBA actually weighs more on the side of music, then visual or GE.

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2008 State of Illinois Invitational High School Marching Band Championship

Master Schedule

August 28

 

1 1A Watseka 7:14

2 1A Eureka 7:28

3 1A Olympia 7:42

4 1A University 7:56

5 1A Blue Ridge 8:10

6 1A Macomb 8:24

14" break 8:38

7 2A Effingham 8:52

8 2A Herscher 9:06

9 2A Dunlap 9:20

10 2A Geneseo 9:34

11 2A Illinois Valley Central 9:48

12 2A Pontiac Township 10:02

13 2A Morton 10:16

1A/2A Awards - 28" break 10:30

14 3A Lincoln-Way North 10:58

15 3A Rock Island 11:12

16 3A Marian Catholic 11:26

17 3A Limestone Community 11:40

18 3A Antioch Community 11:54

19 3A Triad 12:08

20 3A Lemont 12:22

14" break 12:36

21 4A Bloomington 12:50

22 4A Romeoville 1:04

23 4A Normal West 1:18

24 4A United Township 1:32

25 4A Collinsville 1:46

26 4A Argo Community 2:00

3A/4A Awards - 28" break 2:14

27 5A Joliet West 2:42

28 5A Wheaton Warrenville So. 2:56

29 5A Victor J. Andrew 3:10

30 5A Wheaton North 3:24

31 5A Brother Rice/St. Laurence 3:38

32 5A Lincoln-Way East 3:52

33 5A Prospect 4:06

14" break 4:20

34 6A Lake Park 4:34

35 6A Lockport Township 4:48

36 6A Plainfield Central 5:02

37 6A Lincoln-Way Central 5:16

38 6A Waubonsie Valley 5:30

39 6A Downers Grove South 5:44

40 6A Naperville Central 5:58

41 6A Warren Township 6:12

42 6A Naperville North 6:26

EXH ISU BRMM B 6:40

Class 5A/6A Awards 6:54

Announcement of Finalists 7:04

Finals Competition Begins 8:00

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my VERY early picks:

 

1A: Eureka

2A: Morton

3A: Marian Catholic

4A: United Township

5A: Prospect

6A: Lake Park

 

Finalists:

1A-6A champions plus:

Lincoln-Way East

Lincoln-Way Central

Victor J. Andrew

Naperville North

Wheaton Warrenville South

 

 

maybe finalists?:

Lincoln-Way North

Waubonsie Valley

Naperville Central

 

 

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