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Dan Balash

DCI Rules Proposals

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I'll be reporting tomorrow from inside the meeting. I'll let you guys know as it happens.

 

I was in the percussion staff room, and we all approved the electronics after discussion.

A lot of the ideas that are potentially being passed are truly looked at as an improvement to the activity. We will see the outcomes soon enough

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so the voting is done, and here's the results:

 

Extension of warm-up time: Pass

 

Raise membership limit to 150: Pass 16-4

*For implementation in 2008

 

Inclusion of electronic instruments:Failed by a 10-10 vote. Does not pass, due to not having a majority.

 

 

Position of visual performance judge: Pass

*Modified from the original proposal, providing for the judge to be in the stands through July 4, and on the field for the remainder of the season.

 

Percussion adjudication: Pass

*Modified from the original proposal, providing for one judge to be positioned in the stands through July 4, and one judge on the field and one judge in the stands (for major events) for the remainder of the season.

 

Changing the back of the score sheet: Pass

 

 

Proposals that failed in the Instuctors' caucus:

 

Prop persons not included in membership limit: Defeated 18-1

 

Ordinals decide placement at contests: Defeated 19-0

 

Overall effect judges: Defeated 19-0

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the proposals that you mentioned failed went down in the Instructor's caucus, not the director's caucus

 

All in all, after spending more time thinking about the proposals and discussing them with my peers, I would agree with everything that was passed except for the Visual judge in the stands. Basically, this has taken away the importance of the individual performer, and puts more emphasis on the visual ensemble, which is already being judged.

 

Even though I wouldn't be using them myself, I would have preferred if the electronics proposal had passed, and I actually gave George a suggestion of having his guys bring examples to the board of what he plans on doing with them. I think this will pass next year, and that seemed to be the general consensus.

 

I would have preferred if the 150 rule had not passed, as it was discovered that a few of the div I corps do not have full 135 rosters. I knew this was a problem with Pioneer, but I did not know that Madarins and others have had the same problems, (mostly because of my inactivity in the community).

 

If anyone has any questions on what kind of discussions happened in the instructors caucus or what was accomplished this weekend, I will be more than willing to discuss it more.

 

I have to say, after spending the weekend here, I learned a lot and have plenty of good plans to apply to my ensemble.

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Upon watching the webcast, Hopkins seemed sure that all of the Division I corps would have 150 next year. That man looked dead tired as he talked to Potter. Probably because he hadn't had Starbucks in a few days. :P

 

You know, the more I think about it, the more I'd be willing to accept electronics in drum corps, as long as the whole show is not dependent on them.

 

do you know if there's any plans to put the results (who voted for what) up on dci.org?

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Well, the biggest reason I'll accept it is we are going to be able to expand our arranging options for percussion.

 

And George was tired because of Saturday night... the same reason everyone who was at the hotel bar that night was tired.... =)

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...I would agree with everything that was passed except for the Visual judge in the stands. Basically, this has taken away the importance of the individual performer, and puts more emphasis on the visual ensemble, which is already being judged.

if I read things correctly, the passed visual judge rule was passed with an amendment that the vis judge would be back on the field after July 4 (like the percussion judge rule)

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the visual judge will be in the stands until July 4th. The original proposal was to have one judge off the field the entire season. An amendment offered in Atlanta that passed moves that judge back onto the field after July 4.

One percussion judge will be in the stands until July 4th. After that, one percussion judge will be on the field and one will be in the stands (for major events.)

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ok. this is going to be an extremely long post. Over the past couple of days. I have been UIL'ifying the past 20 years of Grand National Finals results. What this is, is I have typed out 20 years of finals scores, bands, and the like, and put rankings (1-12 in most cases, 1-10 for one year, 1-14 for a couple years) for the most important captions, such as music, visual, music ge, and total ge. It was a very interesting few days, to say the least.

 

What I learned:

-I apparently have no life. I was going to do prelims and semis as well, but this took me long enough.

-No bands have ever swept all of the captions.

-There were a lot of ties (other than first place) that I couldn't figure out how to break. I left the ties as is.

-Where have some of these bands gone?

-There were a few champions that lost their title under the UIL system. To figure out totals for UIL, I added together the music ranking, visual ranking, music ge, and total ge to get the UIL total. Changes by year to come following the links. All are in .pdf format

 

1986 1987 1988 1989 1990 1991 1992 1993 1994 1995 1996 1997 1998 1999 2000 2001 2002 2003 2004 2005 2006

 

Changes by year under UIL (place that is first is original BOA placement, 2nd placement is under UIL)

1986-No change

1987-Norwin goes from 9th to 8th, Central Cabernus 7th to 9th, Centerville 8th to 7th, North Philadelphia 12th to 13th, and Flushing 13th to 12th.

1988-Tie for 5th between Centerville and PCEP, McGavock goes from 10th to 7th, Cicero North Syracuse 3rd to 2nd, Westerville South 6th to 8th, George Rogers Clark 7th to 9th, Lake Park 2nd to 3rd, New Philadelphia 13th to 12th,.

1989-Marian goes from 1st to 2nd, Lake Park 2nd to 1st, George Rogers Clark (GRC) 8th to 6th, Centerville 10th to 9th, Lawrence North 6th to 7th, Liverpool 12th to 11th, North Hardin 5th to 4th, J.M. Tate 10th to 9th, and Union 11th to 12th

1990-Westfield goes from 2nd to 1st, West Gennesse 4th to 6th, GRC 11th to 10th, Marian 6th to 5th, Norwin 8th to 9th, McGavock 10th to 11th, Lassiter 5th to 4th, Union 9th to 8th, PCEP 1st to 2nd.

1991-PCEP and Marian tie for 1st (PCEP wins due to larger amount of 1st place votes), Lake Park 4th to 3rd, West Gennesse 7th to 6th, Duncanville 6th to 5th, GRC 5th to 7th, Kiski 4th to 3rd, Flushing and Central Cabarrus tie for 11th.

1992-PCEP and Marian tie for 1st (PCEP wins due to more first place votes), C-ville 1st to 3rd, Irmo and Etiwanda tie for 10th.

1993-Center Grove 10th to 11th, Northrop 11th to 10th.

1994-Kiski 2nd to 1st, Marian 1st to 2nd, Lake Park 5th to 4th, Westerville South 4th to 5th, PCEP 6th to 5th, Homestead and Seminole tie for 10th.

1995-Lake Park 4th to 3rd, Prospect 13th to 12th, Norwin 7th to 6th, West Genesse and C-ville tie for 7th.

1996-Center Grove and Marian tie for 2nd, Kiski 3rd to 4th, Lawrence Central 6th to 5th, Pomona 5th to 6th.

1997- Center Grove and Lake Park tie for 2nd, Carmel and Lawrence Central tie for 6th, McGavock and Webster tie for 9th.

1998-Marian goes from 4th to 3rd, Center Grove 3rd to 4th, Winston Churchill goes from 9th to 7th, Carmel 7th to 9th.

1999-Marian and Center Grove tie for 2nd, Carmel 3rd to 4th, Etiwanda 8th to 9th, Winston Churchill and Broken Arrow tie for 7th.

2000-Marian and PCEP tie for 1st (Marian wins due to more 1st place votes), Carmel 5th to 4th, Lawrence Central 4th to 5th.

2001- Marian 5th to 3rd, PCEP 3rd to 5th, Avon, Irmo and Center Grove tie for 9th, Tarpon Springs and Kiski tie for 6th.

2002-SFA goes from 5th to 4th, Carmel 4th to 5th, Center Grove and Kennesaw Mountain tie for 6th, Ronald Reagan 11th to 9th, PCEP and Winston Churchill tie for 10th.

2003-Kennesaw Mountain, LD Bell and Carmel tie for 3rd, Avon 7th to 8th, Marian 10th to 9th, Center Grove 9th to 10th.

2004-The Woodlands and Avon tie for 6th, Ben Davis and PCEP tie for 9th, and Lafayette and Ayala tie for 11th.

2005-Richland and Tarpon Springs tie for 7th.

2006-LD Bell 1st to 2nd, Broken Arrow 1st to 2nd, Lawrence Central 6th to 5th, Tarpon Springs 5th to 6th, James Bowie 12th to 11th, Marian 11th to 12th.

 

Grand National Champions 1986-2006: Original, then UIL winner in bold

1986-Rocky Mount (Rocky Mount)

1987-Marian Catholic (Marian Catholic)

1988-Marian Catholic (Marian Catholic)

1989-Marian Catholic (Lake Park)

1990-PCEP (Westfield)

1991-PCEP (PCEP)

1992-Centerville (PCEP)

1993-Spring (Spring)

1994-Marian Catholic (Kiski)

1995-Center Grove (Center Grove)

1996-Lake Park (Lake Park)

1997-Marian Catholic (Marian Catholic)

1998-Lassiter (Lassiter)

1999-PCEP (PCEP)

2000-Marian Catholic (Marian Catholic)

2001-Lawrence Central (Lawrence Central)

2002-Lassiter (Lassiter)

2003-Westfield (Westfield)

2004-Lawrence Central (Lawrence Central)

2005-Carnel (Carmel

2006-Broken Arrow (LD Bell)

 

so as you can see, the UIL system really does not work. Under this system, there are 5 new Grand National Champions, and a lot of place changes.

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tuba warrior, you are correct

 

the board is the director of each member corps, this year it was 16, along with 4 members of the board. i can't rmember thier names at the moment.

 

so, all the decisions being made are from corps themselves.

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I guess I'm just disappointed that Robert's Rules of Order aren't followed by the Board of Directors then.

 

Jeff, as Chairman, should not have been allowed to put forth chnages in the Rules. The chair is supposed to be unbiased at all times. And he certainly should not have been a part of the debate of any rule changes. (not sure if he was or not).

 

Oh well, maybe the Boston director will observe protocol.

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The board is set up to be exactly like that...

 

Also, Dan is sitting by thier side the entire time making sure the meeting is run as fair as possible. I don't have a problem with how it's run. everyone get's thier chance to voice thier opinion. The meeting was ran very fair. And they do follow Robert's Rules very closely. Remember that Robert's rules are the suggestions, and that the bylaws of the board are the operating rules.

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we were put in to different pods and were asked to think outside the box... you'd be surprised what kind of ideas came out...

 

6 judges, all judging GE

 

2 GE Overall

1 Visual

1 Music

1 Perc

1 Guard

 

 

there is a chance that DCI judging and BOA judging systems are on the way to 6 judges total, so they were trying to get our input... it will be an interesting future

 

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I don't like the 6 judge total concept. There would be too much control over one person's opinion of the show.

 

Judging is subjective, period. I'm not going to beat around the bush - it just is, to a degree.

 

I like the ISU system, based off of BOA, but with 4 judges judging Music GE and 2 judging Visual GE - with scores being averaged.

 

If I ever have the time, I'll go through past recaps at ISU and show how drastically finals would be with only one judge per caption.

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ok. this is going to be an extremely long post. Over the past couple of days. I have been UIL'ifying the past 20 years of Grand National Finals results. What this is, is I have typed out 20 years of finals scores, bands, and the like, and put rankings (1-12 in most cases, 1-10 for one year, 1-14 for a couple years) for the most important captions, such as music, visual, music ge, and total ge. It was a very interesting few days, to say the least.

 

 

so as you can see, the UIL system really does not work. Under this system, there are 5 new Grand National Champions, and a lot of place changes.

Interesting results to say the least. But, really all you've proven is that the results would have been a little different. I'm not saying that UIL or BOA is perfect or that either is better than the other, but...based on the research you did..its not really all that different.

 

I think you would agree that changing places by one or two is not a significant change. Especially with the level of performances that usually take place at Grand Nationals. If you would have seen major place movement with the UIL system, then maybe something would be suspect.

 

Even if you look at the results from the Texas UIL State Contest (which I know you copied earlier) there were some bands that usually do well at BOA that did not place quite as well as one would expect. As many preach on this site..you can't compare one contest to another. Unless you were there, you can't say for sure that the results were that far off.

 

What exactly makes you think that UIL "doesn't work"?

 

Should this conversation be in a differnet thread maybe?

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