Jump to content
Illinois Marching Online
Sign in to follow this  
Dan Balash

DCI Rules Proposals

Recommended Posts

So DCI posted the rules proposals being discussed at the Winter Meetings today:

 

They are:

 

1.) Extension of warm up time: Coming from George Hopkins of the Cadets. Hopkins wants DCI to allow warmups from after the 2:00 minute entrance time up to the beginning of the show. Corps would still have 5 minutes to enter/set up, etc.

 

2.) Raise membership of DI corps to 150-Hopkins again. He wants to have the proper balance among the different parts of the ensemble. He believes with the current 125, if there is a large brass section, the guard will not have enough effect.

 

3.) Prop people not included in the membership count-Hopkins again. Any prop person would not be in uniform and would move the props around/on and off the field.

 

4.) Inclusion of electronic instruments-Hoppy once again. Includes electronic keyboards and electronic drum machines. Does not include woodwinds, as those are still illegal.

 

5.) Positioning of Visual Performance Judge: From David Gibbs of the Blue Devils. It would move the Visual judge off of the field into a low spot in the stands. "There is no way that one judge can sample fairly and view intelligently the visual performance of a drum corps when placed on a 100yd football field."

 

6.) Ordinals decide placement at contests-From Jeff Fiedler of the Cavaliers. Judging will remain the same. Corps perform and judges rank and rate corps against criteria. Judges rankings for each corps are used to determine the placement for corps in a contest. To maintain current system weight on effect, GE judge rankings are counted twice.

 

7.) Overall effect judges: Fiedler again. DCI Contests will have two (2) Overall Effect Judges

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

1. Agreed.

 

2. Leaning toward disagree. I'm split on this one because it would offer the corps experience to more people, but at the same time I'm not hot on the whole guard excuse. I think corps interest is high and by keeping it at the lower number it increases how hard someone would work to join a corps.

 

3. Agreed. I see no problem with this

 

4. Strongly Disagree.

 

5. Agreed.

 

6. Disagree.

 

7. Disagree.

 

8. Disagree. That's what you have a percussion caption head for

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

1. Yes From a caption head's prospective, 5 minutes would be a godsend for preparing the performers with the field accoustics. I will be able to run an on field warm up instead of an on field rush through this piece.

 

2. Indifferent However I see this helping hopkins get his woodwinds on the field... so I have to lean towards no...

 

3. No - Props are a HS marching band thing. And they deal with thier props with thier members. keeping this away forces the creative staff to create props that are member friendly.

 

4. Hell No!!! No keyboards... Ever!!

 

5. Yes - From experience as a visual tech... I always had to go in to stands to see my own groups work, and I had written it!!!

 

6. No - Here goes DCI trying to turn in to BOA

 

7. No - I strongly believe that both aspects of the show deserve thier own attention

 

8. NO!! - I would instead suggest that they assign a group of judges to box first half, and switch... and vise versa

 

I am going to the Jan 27th, 28th meeting I'll come back with any interesting info

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

1. Yes

2. Indifferent. This might cause more of a financial burden on some corps though? And look at how many are folding each year...........Can you believe that Dubuque, IA can sustain a major D-1 Corps??? Go Dubuque!!

3. The only people that have issues with this are the Cadets......and rightly so - because they have ridiculous props. I hope DCI sends a message to them voting this down.

4. Do the Cadets have a life? Maybe they should go be a BOA band.

5. No. Shouldn't Visual Performance be judging individuals. Don't we have a Visual GE judge to judge from up to - the overall picture? But I guess if Fiedler gets his way..........we won't.

6. If this passes - I may just gag.

7. If this passes - I will flat out puke........then stop watching DCI all-together.

8. Absolutely No. I think there should be 2 percussion judges as many times as you can have them there.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Designed... if you think that any division 1 corps get's it's membership from their actual location you are nuts... they had 400+ at thier camps from all over the US. Most corps this year held auditions in locations around the country. hitting 200 wouldn't be a problem for Division I. And it WON"T affect div II / III because no div I corps turns over ANY members to Div III because they don't want to lose the revenue from having kids sho up at every camp until they get cut in like march. hell, last year the Cavaliers held a band camp style camp for some of thier cut list that stayed down at EIU with the corps during thier second hell week. Division I is big business. 150 kids just means more Dues And the corps that are folding are the ones that had bad business lans to begin with. Magic last year was running off credit cards at the end of the season. The books are easy to handle in Div I if you know what you are doing.

 

Cavaliers had 800 audition in two locations, and brought half to the dec camp. and I believe $50 collected per audition. 1200 * 50 = $60,000 That's their entire gas fund for the summer in two camps. And of those 1200, 135 will march at 1500 per member for over 200,000

 

Granted, this is a teir 1 group, but that's just member money. They have a VERY large budget from handling money correctly. All corps can do this. The corps that are folding are ones that don't act fiscally responsible. Racine Scouts are in thier' 80th year. they books are being handled right. Capital Sound isn't going full tour, but they are doing what's right to keep the doors open.

 

Anyway... i'm done with my rant... just trying to make the point that 150 members is easily doable bye div I corps

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

just to point out...the current div I limit is 135, not 125, it was changed within the last few years (don't know when though)...it seems that there is a slight movement to get the judges off the field. by moving the percussion judge (early season) and vis performance judge, if both pass, it would probably only be a matter of time before the brass judge is moved to the front sideline as well.

 

1.) Extension of warm up time - so you still get 5 minutes to enter and set up, i guess the point is you get the last 3 of those minutes instead of 60 seconds to do a warm-up...i guess if you have to pass a rule, this is one of the safer ones, but you possibly run the risk of making stuff too drawn out and your kids run out of gas before the exciting stuff happens (of course this could be a design flaw within the show as well, so that's kinda moot)

 

2.) Raise membership of DI corps to 150 - 180 didn't pass in 2004, so he's going lower to eventually get up to that number. i understand wanting to have more horns or more guard, but when is enough enough? it's bad enough to see marching bands with so many people on the field that they can't do much without running into each other, drum corps should be very careful to not go down this same road

 

3.) Prop people not included in the membership count - i think this is really silly...if you have stuff that needs to be pushed around but don't want to have your corps membership moving it, perhaps it's not something you want on the field (see Capital Regiment "sundial", Cadets "door", etc...)

 

4.) Inclusion of electronic instruments - umm, no...next

 

5.) Positioning of Visual Performance Judge - then where do you put the judge? putting the judges in the bleachers not only takes away a seat from a paying audience, it also puts folks close to someone talking into a tape recorder throughout every show. if you give them a table on the field level, I suppose that could work, but i still think they need to be on the field.

 

6.) Ordinals decide placement at contests - i still don't understand the basis of this proposal and i've read it 4 different times...if the only proposal is GE is counted twice in the overall tally, than i think that's not necessary.

 

7.) Overall effect judges - not quite sure, i see where he's coming from, but a lot of corps still design with music and vis, not combined

 

8.) Percussion adjudication - mixed opinion....from a safety standpoint, i understand, but where in the bleachers?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Wow Drummer79 - relax. I put a ? at the end of my statement regarding the raising of numbers because I was unsure, I don't know what each corps charges - although one thing that neither of us thought of - is the $10-15 bucks a person that they charge just to get the audition packet in some corps!!!

 

And yes - I realize that the actual corps locations get few members from their actual area. Look at the Phantom percussion section - it's University of North Texas extension.

 

I'm just saying that a town like Dubuque, kind of neat to see they can get community support, donations, sponsorships, etc... from such a small community base, compared to Concord, Rosemont, Orlando, Rockford, etc...

 

No harm, no foul. Smile. :)

 

Side note: Is there a listing of the members of the Board who will be voting on this on the DCI site?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

yeah, the 15 for the audition packet ends up in the hands of people who don't even get to camps...

 

And after more research it's 1700 for the season for most groups.

 

for almost 230,000

 

 

What needs to happen is more support for div II / III corps. if there are 800 people trying out for div 1, there's no reason every div II / III corps couldn't have full rosters... but that's a matter of DCI pushing to have the div I corps send thier turned away audtioneers to div II/III

 

And sorry DFB just something I'm up to my ears with lately. Seeing as I'm going to the meeting that all of these issues will be voted on. And don't worry.. I'll voice my opinion. 1 and 5 are the only issues I am okay with.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

according to the schedule, there will be one Division II corps at ISU: Colt Cadets.

 

Capital Sound will be at DCI Chicagoland (Lisle).

 

Capital Sound will also be at Rockford.

 

Colt Cadets/Cap Sound at Oswego

 

Colt Cadets/Cap Sound at Naperville.

 

 

Just felt like looking up what DII/DIII corps will be in Illinois this season for comps, because I don't want to go to bed.

 

I don't mean to complain, but I find it ridiculous that Illinois only has four competitions...two major.

 

I miss the one in Frankfort :(

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Didn't they used to do one in DeKalb too? Maybe that should be resurrected too.

 

4 shows for IL isn't that bad? I know we're a huge state in population - but that's all in Chicago/Rockford. We don't have many large cities like California and Texas. Heck look at NY - they only have 2 I think I counted on the DCI site.

 

We are in the midwest though...........so there is more opportunity to have them.......

 

Maybe we'll see one pop up in the near future in places like Peoria, Quad Cities, Springfield, Champaign, etc... Could sell a lot of tickets at new Memorial Stadium in U of Illinois.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

the one in Dekalb was amazing. I went there every year.

 

hell, I bet they could probably do a regional in Soldier Field.

 

Pehaps when worlds moves to Indy, the Midwest Regional moves to Chicago and Soldier Field?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

1.) no, the time they have now is enough.

2.)NO! Half of the lower end Div.1 Corps can't even reach 100.

3.) No, If they're on the field, they're preforming.

4.) No. just no.

5.) Meh, it makes sense, I'm not really partial to any side. Except for the fact that there would be one less judge I could run over...:rolleyes:

6.)Meh to this one too. No specific side taken.

7.)no

8.) No

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

the run down on the voting: the director of each div I corps each get a vote during the rules discussion. The II/III committee will meet to discuss the rules and the coordinator (J.W. Koester) votes the consensus of the II/III corps during the final vote.

 

the show in DeKalb was the Drum Corps Midwest (circuit) championship....since DCM is no longer operating, the show does not take place...not quite sure why DCI has not added a show there, great location, but perhaps the subject has never came up.

 

and finally: Colt Cadets/Capital Sound will also be in attendance at the Indy Regional on Sat. July 28...not really that far for IL folks (about 3 hours from Frankfort)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's a personal preference for me, as far as rule #4.

 

I much prefer hearing a real organ instead of a synthesizer pretending to be an organ. I know I'll never hear an organ on the field, and I'm OK with that.

 

I much prefer hearing instruments LIVE and played with their original intent. To me, it's not about what DCI used to be and has evolved to. It still only has instruments played that are live instruments, not electronic copies.

 

It would be nice to have a pit without amps, but you can't have that produce sound effectively above the corps. And as far as playing with proper technique, you are actually putting percussionists at danger for tendinitis or other wrist problems without amplification, if they have to bang away at keyboards for 11 minutes.

 

I'm not a big fan of electronic instruments in any sort of concert or marching setting. Sure, if you can't get a real bass player for a HS jazz band, use an electric bass player or a synthesizer...........but as a listener, don't you really want to hear that original sound? I guess that's a rhetorical question to everyone. If not, then I guess we should just change DCI to having one person go out on the field and play chords on the synthesizer, then they can play the whole show with that as an "Advancement in technology." There's a certain majesty of sound with a brass ensemble on the field accompanied by drums and mallet instruments.

 

We hold DCI players to be some of the best musicians in the country. I realize there is a high number of upper echelon players who never do drum corps, but you all get the idea........we should expect them to do their part when trying to recreate sounds of musical instruments as much as possible with their instrument.

 

Example......Listen to Eastman Wind Ensemble play Bach's Toccata and Fugue in d minor and you'll swear you are listening to an organ.

 

Drummer79 is beyond right. DCI is NOT WGI or BOA. I hope it never does become it, and I hope a few of the measures that will be voted on at the end of the month that could turn it in that direction are voted down.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You mentioned that you don't want woodwinds in corps... what the hell do you think George Hopkins is planning with th keyboards? I promise you it's not the sounds of an organ or piano... Even in his proposal, he mentions that he wants to hear the sounds of a saxophone in a jazz tune blah blah blah... It will turn in to the electronic woodwind section.

 

Electronic Keyboards DO NOT belong in DCI. This mention of sounds that can't be created by dci instruments, guess what... that's the point of DCI. Drum and Bugle Corps. Not, Drum, Brass, Piano, Organ, and Woodwind Corps. Yes, they have turned to Bb instruments, of which I have NO problem with... (take a kid from any HS band, and they can play right away with no changes) But adding electronic instruments takes away the entire point. Again, I'll remake the point... DCI is not WGI or BOA. those performance arenas have allowed electronics, and they are now dominated by them. DCI has always been about the individuals on the field performing thier ---- off. This will take away from that. Just as it has in BOA. It lets performers become lazy, by replacing moments of the show with electronic music. I.E. BOA's Class A Champion Band this year, who had a piano playing for 2:30 of the show while no one else played. If you think this won't happen in DCI, then just look at what The Cadets have already done with the short leash they've been given. I'm not saying that BOA performers don't work hard, trust me, I'm saying far from this, but they can get away with less because of this turn.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

×