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saxyman

ISU 2011

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Do they reflect your predictions? Or would you have changed your predictions now after seeing the preliminaries and finals.

 

I would have a different set of bands after actually having seen the performances. I'm not in disagreement with all the placements, probably one or two in each class and in finals, which wouldn't make a big difference in the overall picture.

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Something appears wrong with these scores to me also.  How does a band jump from 7th to 3rd in the finals with a point jump like that, especially if you review the prelim scores.

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Guest Brucknerfanatic8

Do they reflect your predictions? Or would you have changed your predictions now after seeing the preliminaries and finals.

 

I would have a different set of bands after actually having seen the performances. I'm not in disagreement with all the placements, probably one or two in each class and in finals, which wouldn't make a big difference in the overall picture.

 

Which ones.

 

Something appears wrong with these scores to me also.  How does a band jump from 7th to 3rd in the finals with a point jump like that, especially if you review the prelim scores.

 

Different judges, different opinions. The prelim judges probably thought much differently than the finals.

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Which ones.

 

I'll only put the top 3 that I would have changed, the other classes have changes I would have made, but below the top three doesn't really amount to much change, just personal preference really.

 

1A

IVC

Eureka

U-High

 

2A

Same

 

3A

Marian

Lemont

Normal West

 

4A

Same

 

5A

Prospect

O'Fallon

VJA

 

6A

DGS

Lake Park

Lockport

 

Finals

 

Marian

Prospect

DGS

LWN

O'Fallon

Lake Park

VJA

Lockport

LWE

Morton

Plainfield North

Normal West

LWC

IVC

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Something appears wrong with these scores to me also.  How does a band jump from 7th to 3rd in the finals with a point jump like that, especially if you review the prelim scores.

Remember, groups 1A-4A and 5A-6A were scored by different judges earlier in the day, so you can't directly compare their scores in each category.  ISU attempts to get the Top 7 bands from 1A-4A, and the Top 7 from 5A-6A, and then have them compete again in Finals under the same set of judges.  A band may have a better or worse performance in Finals (it IS a long day), but at least they all have a chance to go up against the best and be scored by the same panel of judges.  The Finals panel also scored the 5A-6A bands, but on different assignments.  An entirely different panel judged the 1A-4A bands in Prelims.

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Something appears wrong with these scores to me also.  How does a band jump from 7th to 3rd in the finals with a point jump like that, especially if you review the prelim scores.

Remember, groups 1A-4A and 5A-6A were scored by different judges earlier in the day, so you can't directly compare their scores in each category.  ISU attempts to get the Top 7 bands from 1A-4A, and the Top 7 from 5A-6A, and then have them compete again in Finals under the same set of judges.  A band may have a better or worse performance in Finals (it IS a long day), but at least they all have a chance to go up against the best and be scored by the same panel of judges.  The Finals panel also scored the 5A-6A bands, but on different assignments.  An entirely different panel judged the 1A-4A bands in Prelims.

 

What I'd really prefer is a combination of the two panels judging finals, but beggars can't be choosers.

 

Does anyone think that Downers Grove South could be a contender at BOA if they decided to go this year. Even possibly make Grand Nationals?

 

They'll never know if they don't try.  :)

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Not entirely sure how Morton finished last in GE. Seen the show a couple times and it seemed to be oozing with it, as is the tradition with that band.

 

However, congratulations to all the bands. It's nice to see ISU placements getting shaken up a little bit.

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Was anyone else somewhat surprised at 3A placing? It seemed most people predicted Lemont second, and UT and Bloomington with the second most votes. But then West got second and Lemont and Bloomington weren't even in the top 3. In my opinion both Lemont and Bloomington and maybe even UT were finals-caliber bands. I'm not saying that Normal West isn't, but it's just a shame how close that class was.

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I'm a little surprised at the drastic jumps in scores. 4A is the main thing that surprises me. Those are 6 bands that are relatively good, especially this year. Most people had the the lincolnways and plainfield north picked to go to finals, with Batavia and Romeoville as outside surprise favorites. Not only did that not happen, but the bands weren't even close. I didn't think Batavia or Romeoville had great shows, but I think 58 and 56 scores are pretty harsh. I mean, that put them almost 15 points out of the finals cutoff. This is probably why I am not a judge, but I just found it a little interesting.

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I'd like to say, congratulations to all of the wonderful bands that participated yesterday. It was a cold morning that's for sure, and the performances were stellar. I may be a bit disappointed in Rock Island's placement, however, we went to WIU last night and had a wonderful time.

This is the best season Rock Island's ever had, and being that its my second to last year, I've thoroughly enjoyed our wonderful season.

As the incoming senior drum major of next year's band, I am so ready to grow and build on our new and improved program. We're only getting better as time goes by and I hope those other schools are ready for us.  ;)

We're coming for you!:)

Thank you for all for your support and appreciation of our show, we had a wonderful time and now it's on to the next one.

Again, congratulations to all of the bands. :)

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It has been an amazing season this year!  I think this years finalists placings show that it doesn't matter what your schools reputation is and how well you did in years past.  This years finals prove that there are no predetermined results.  Just look at LWE, LWC, LP, NN,  they were all beat by Downers Grove South.  That program has been really growing over the years and showed these other bands with great programs that you don't have to be the expected band to be an expected band.

I don't get what people (and judges) saw in Downers Grove South.  That show put me to sleep.  I also thought LWC was good, I didn't understand their 13th placement, nor the negative comments.  I would have put them more in the middle, and ahead of DGS.  What am I missing?

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Did anyone else take issue with Music General Effect Judges during the 1A-4A session?  There scores were very low across the board, although they were consistent in terms of ranking.  My main issue is that I learned very little from listening to the tape.  As a band director, I am not disappointed with the placement, I feel my tapes were very weak from both of them especially from Joel Denton. 

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It has been an amazing season this year!  I think this years finalists placings show that it doesn't matter what your schools reputation is and how well you did in years past.  This years finals prove that there are no predetermined results.  Just look at LWE, LWC, LP, NN,  they were all beat by Downers Grove South.  That program has been really growing over the years and showed these other bands with great programs that you don't have to be the expected band to be an expected band.

I don't get what people (and judges) saw in Downers Grove South.  That show put me to sleep.  I also thought LWC was good, I didn't understand their 13th placement, nor the negative comments.  I would have put them more in the middle, and ahead of DGS.  What am I missing?

Well first of all, its clearly obvious you don't appreciate marching shows beyond "pretty colors" and props. 2nd, DGS performed musically excellent, and their visual was executed at a very high level. 3rd, LWC was not so clean, and not as visually demanding either; again, I feel that you need to move past the "they have pretty props, they must be better!" stage. DGS was a surprise pick, I know, for 4th place, but seeing their show in finals, it made a lot of sense why they were placed that way. LWC had a great show in finals, no doubt, but most definately not anywhere close to DGS. I hope you appreciate the music/visual and complex side of marching shows in the future, because right now, your comment made it seem like you really have no clue if it made you "fall asleep", DGS's show was definately energetic and had many impact points at that, and in my opinion, does not deserve such a comment :-\. Congrats to both bands for making finals.

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It's a free country, and we're all entitled to our opinions. In fact if we all felt exactly tha same about every show, that would be pretty weird.

 

Remember that the judges are watching and listening based on their training and based on the caption that they are judging (I.e. the specific sub captions on their judging sheet).  Just because someone doesn't like a particular bands design doesn't mean that it's not a good design in a judges eyes.

 

There are top level bands whose designs may not be my cup of tea, but if I look at it objectively, I can appreciate the design and the demand and the execution.

 

It has been an amazing season this year!  I think this years finalists placings show that it doesn't matter what your schools reputation is and how well you did in years past.  This years finals prove that there are no predetermined results.  Just look at LWE, LWC, LP, NN,  they were all beat by Downers Grove South.  That program has been really growing over the years and showed these other bands with great programs that you don't have to be the expected band to be an expected band.

I don't get what people (and judges) saw in Downers Grove South.  That show put me to sleep.  I also thought LWC was good, I didn't understand their 13th placement, nor the negative comments.  I would have put them more in the middle, and ahead of DGS.  What am I missing?

 

 

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Well said. It is tough to remember that a lot of the judging is subjective, GE in particular. While parts can be quantified (tuning, blend, marching technique, etc)...when a GE judge has to work with the design of the show as a whole...it is totally subjective.

 

Just because we, the audience, don't like a show's concept, doesn't mean a judge feels the same way, and vice versa.

 

I think for all the times we rip on judging (and sometimes it is warranted, especially in the more objective categories)...we sometimes have to step back and think about exactly what those judges are trying to quantify...

 

It's a free country, and we're all entitled to our opinions. In fact if we all felt exactly tha same about every show, that would be pretty weird.

 

Remember that the judges are watching and listening based on their training and based on the caption that they are judging (I.e. the specific sub captions on their judging sheet).  Just because someone doesn't like a particular bands design doesn't mean that it's not a good design in a judges eyes.

 

There are top level bands whose designs may not be my cup of tea, but if I look at it objectively, I can appreciate the design and the demand and the execution.

 

It has been an amazing season this year!  I think this years finalists placings show that it doesn't matter what your schools reputation is and how well you did in years past.  This years finals prove that there are no predetermined results.  Just look at LWE, LWC, LP, NN,  they were all beat by Downers Grove South.  That program has been really growing over the years and showed these other bands with great programs that you don't have to be the expected band to be an expected band.

I don't get what people (and judges) saw in Downers Grove South.  That show put me to sleep.  I also thought LWC was good, I didn't understand their 13th placement, nor the negative comments.  I would have put them more in the middle, and ahead of DGS.  What am I missing?

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And I was just about to tease you about time being up. ;D  Seriously, thank you and Mark for all you do to manage this site and share the info with us all.

 

No, thank you all for using the site.  We're experiencing ridiculous traffic volumes this season, and that's only going to rise with some of the plans we have for the site.  :)

 

Without getting too sappy in this post (that's what the end of the season writeup is for), I want to thank Mark and the rest of the staff for putting up with my craziness and (sometimes) odd requests. 

 

If you like what you see, make sure to recommend the site to your friends!

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It has been an amazing season this year!  I think this years finalists placings show that it doesn't matter what your schools reputation is and how well you did in years past.  This years finals prove that there are no predetermined results.  Just look at LWE, LWC, LP, NN,  they were all beat by Downers Grove South.  That program has been really growing over the years and showed these other bands with great programs that you don't have to be the expected band to be an expected band.

I don't get what people (and judges) saw in Downers Grove South.  That show put me to sleep.  I also thought LWC was good, I didn't understand their 13th placement, nor the negative comments.  I would have put them more in the middle, and ahead of DGS.  What am I missing?

Well first of all, its clearly obvious you don't appreciate marching shows beyond "pretty colors" and props. 2nd, DGS performed musically excellent, and their visual was executed at a very high level. 3rd, LWC was not so clean, and not as visually demanding either; again, I feel that you need to move past the "they have pretty props, they must be better!" stage. DGS was a surprise pick, I know, for 4th place, but seeing their show in finals, it made a lot of sense why they were placed that way. LWC had a great show in finals, no doubt, but most definately not anywhere close to DGS. I hope you appreciate the music/visual and complex side of marching shows in the future, because right now, your comment made it seem like you really have no clue if it made you "fall asleep", DGS's show was definately energetic and had many impact points at that, and in my opinion, does not deserve such a comment :-\. Congrats to both bands for making finals.

Can appreciate your thoughts, thanks.  I am actually more of a purist, though.  I don't really like props.  It was more of LWC's energy that got me more excited than DGS's.  Maybe by the last band it was me getting a little tired.  That's why I asked what I was missing.....hope my comment wasn't too harsh.  I think the competition was very stiff in finals! They are all really amazing at what they're doing out there. 

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I just would like to say it was a wonderful day to watch bands and except for the few noise distractions during prelims from the north bus lot ( happens every year) I enjoyed all the bands. I admit I dont understand all scoring and such but I was happy with the results that I saw. Great job to all

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I wasn’t there so maybe I am in no position to comment, but when I see this kind of disparity between prelims and finals I think it is safe to say something is wrong somewhere.

 

Prelim Final Diff

LWN 77.95 85.05 7.10

Marian 83.55 89.15 5.60

LP 81.50 83.15 1.65

Prospect 83.65 86.15 2.50

DGS 81.10 83.55 2.45

O'Fallon 79.45 82.95 3.50

VJA 77.10 77.05 (0.05)

 

 

Sorry my Excel paste didn't work.

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Marian and LWN had a different panel in prelims.  The 5A/6A panel was also the finals panel.  At the same time, you're assuming both performances were equal in caliber if you're trying to compare the scores.

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