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Top 14 Bands in Illinois

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First of all, Congratulations to DGS, Lockport. (Two bands who improved through the year and had a great showings yesterday.)

 

My question to everyone is - Did we really see the top 14 bands in the State of Illinois compete in Finals yesterday? I don't think so!

 

Nothing against Warren but they make finals then get beat by Eureka? (Eureka is a nice band and definately the best in 1A but they are NOT a top 14 band in Illinois).

 

Other note - Great improvement UT over last year, very impressed!

 

My heart actually goes out to the kids from Victor J. YOU derserved to be in finals (probably in the top 7) and I have no idea HOW you didn't get in!

 

What a joke - Its obvious that ISU Band Day is simply that, a day of Band - NOT Marching Band Championships. Marching Band Championships should contain the BEST bands in the state (like every other state).

 

LWC, keeps your heads up, you should be proud of your hardwork this year.

 

In no way am I trying to speak negatively about ANY of the competing bands at ISU. I am however speaking negatively about the format, the contest, the judges and the joke that is known as ISU Band Day.

 

Congratulations to all of the Bands who actually stayed to brave the weather and put on great shows yesterday!

 

One last thing! Look out - LWN is really getting good, great ensemble sound and what a colorguard!

 

 

 

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Welcome to the boards! My honest opinion is that you are doing what I tend to do. That is, you look at marching band as an overall competitive climate. VJA and LWC are strong programs generally speaking, but at this competition they just weren't good enough.

 

The ISU ranking system has been well documented by Dan and others on this site, and it is clear to me that the top 14 bands do not make finals. However, that being said, the system does guarantee that the overall victor (especially since the return of Prospect in (2006?)) Does emerge as the recognized state champion.

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Neither ISU nor U of I is interested in creating a show that really does a good job of selecting the top 14 bands. If they were, they'd do random draw (no classes). None of the systems, past or present, have been setup to select the best 14 (or ten, or whatever).

 

Instead, U of I and ISU are both interesting in providing an event that makes them money and attracts people to their school, specifically and intentionally benefitting Chicago schools that make the trip down. It is what it is, and absent a true state system, it's probably the best that can be done.

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First of all, Congratulations to DGS, Lockport. (Two bands who improved through the year and had a great showings yesterday.)

 

My question to everyone is - Did we really see the top 14 bands in the State of Illinois compete in Finals yesterday? I don't think so!

 

Nothing against Warren but they make finals then get beat by Eureka? (Eureka is a nice band and definately the best in 1A but they are NOT a top 14 band in Illinois).

 

Other note - Great improvement UT over last year, very impressed!

 

My heart actually goes out to the kids from Victor J. YOU derserved to be in finals (probably in the top 7) and I have no idea HOW you didn't get in!

 

What a joke - Its obvious that ISU Band Day is simply that, a day of Band - NOT Marching Band Championships. Marching Band Championships should contain the BEST bands in the state (like every other state).

 

LWC, keeps your heads up, you should be proud of your hardwork this year.

 

In no way am I trying to speak negatively about ANY of the competing bands at ISU. I am however speaking negatively about the format, the contest, the judges and the joke that is known as ISU Band Day.

 

Congratulations to all of the Bands who actually stayed to brave the weather and put on great shows yesterday!

 

One last thing! Look out - LWN is really getting good, great ensemble sound and what a colorguard!

 

 

Based on watching videos of all these groups, I thought that VJA would probably get in finals, but not in the top 7. Every single band in the top 7 this year was heads and tails above VJA, LWC, etc.

 

I was suprised to read this morning that Warren got in, and Plainfield North...but it looks like Plainfield North really went after it, so good for them. I hadn't even heard that they were a contender, and then they had a nice showing in finals.

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I just looked - Didn't Romeovile just beat Warren at the Lincoln Way contest by almost 4 points. Didn't Victor J. just beat Lockport at BOA by almost 6 points? I don't think Lincoln Way West scored above a 67 all year - Many bands finished above them all year including about 6 bands who didn't even make finals.

 

All I am saying is that the ISU contest in seriously flawed in the way it chooses to reward the bands that attend this contest.

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First of all, Congratulations to DGS, Lockport. (Two bands who improved through the year and had a great showings yesterday.)

 

My question to everyone is - Did we really see the top 14 bands in the State of Illinois compete in Finals yesterday? I don't think so!

 

Nothing against Warren but they make finals then get beat by Eureka? (Eureka is a nice band and definately the best in 1A but they are NOT a top 14 band in Illinois).

 

Other note - Great improvement UT over last year, very impressed!

 

My heart actually goes out to the kids from Victor J. YOU derserved to be in finals (probably in the top 7) and I have no idea HOW you didn't get in!

 

What a joke - Its obvious that ISU Band Day is simply that, a day of Band - NOT Marching Band Championships. Marching Band Championships should contain the BEST bands in the state (like every other state).

 

LWC, keeps your heads up, you should be proud of your hardwork this year.

 

In no way am I trying to speak negatively about ANY of the competing bands at ISU. I am however speaking negatively about the format, the contest, the judges and the joke that is known as ISU Band Day.

 

Congratulations to all of the Bands who actually stayed to brave the weather and put on great shows yesterday!

 

One last thing! Look out - LWN is really getting good, great ensemble sound and what a colorguard!

 

 

Based on watching videos of all these groups, I thought that VJA would probably get in finals, but not in the top 7. Every single band in the top 7 this year was heads and tails above VJA, LWC, etc.

 

I was suprised to read this morning that Warren got in, and Plainfield North...but it looks like Plainfield North really went after it, so good for them. I hadn't even heard that they were a contender, and then they had a nice showing in finals

 

 

Bands peak at different times, previous videos don't mean the world...based on the performances in prelims, who really deserved to be in finals? Simple as that, not who should be in because they never get in, or because they are smaller so give them a chance.

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First of all, Congratulations to DGS, Lockport. (Two bands who improved through the year and had a great showings yesterday.)

 

My question to everyone is - Did we really see the top 14 bands in the State of Illinois compete in Finals yesterday? I don't think so!

 

Nothing against Warren but they make finals then get beat by Eureka? (Eureka is a nice band and definately the best in 1A but they are NOT a top 14 band in Illinois).

 

Other note - Great improvement UT over last year, very impressed!

 

My heart actually goes out to the kids from Victor J. YOU derserved to be in finals (probably in the top 7) and I have no idea HOW you didn't get in!

 

What a joke - Its obvious that ISU Band Day is simply that, a day of Band - NOT Marching Band Championships. Marching Band Championships should contain the BEST bands in the state (like every other state).

 

LWC, keeps your heads up, you should be proud of your hardwork this year.

 

In no way am I trying to speak negatively about ANY of the competing bands at ISU. I am however speaking negatively about the format, the contest, the judges and the joke that is known as ISU Band Day.

 

Congratulations to all of the Bands who actually stayed to brave the weather and put on great shows yesterday!

 

One last thing! Look out - LWN is really getting good, great ensemble sound and what a colorguard!

 

 

First great job to ISU for reducing the delay as much as they did. However, I agree with the disappointing results. They changed how bands got into finals to create a more 'fair' selection, yet the results ended with the same old 'political results' Lake Park performed better than Marian Catholic, without a doubt, Prospect performed better than Lincoln Way East (come on judges LLE was visually better than Prospect?!?), but the biggest disappointment of the night was Morton's placement. I can't believe that Morton was beaten by Naperville North. Morton portrayed a wonderful marching band program and lost to a 'broadway show' on the marching band field. Once again, I didn't watch the marching band although I tried to focus during finals I couldn't take my eyes off the scary clowns and antics all over the field. Plainfield did well and I was glad to see them in finals. Hats off to Lincoln Way West, what a wonderful little band that performed well last night. I thought Eureka was great and really enjoyed their program. Victor J Andrew's program was wonderful and should have been in finals over Warren Township. Don't get me wrong Warren Township sounded good, but like Marian Catholic with 250+ members the sound and music is bound to be good. I wish the only disappointment of the day was the rain.

Do judges take the size of the band into consideration along with the microphones attached to the boards in the pit that amplify the sound when judging?

Also, here's a question...can directors conduct, give instructions to the drum majors, or to memebers of the Pit while the performance is going on?

Congratulations to all!

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I just looked - Didn't Romeovile just beat Warren at the Lincoln Way contest by almost 4 points. Didn't Victor J. just beat Lockport at BOA by almost 6 points? I don't think Lincoln Way West scored above a 67 all year - Many bands finished above them all year including about 6 bands who didn't even make finals.

 

All I am saying is that the ISU contest in seriously flawed in the way it chooses to reward the bands that attend this contest.

It is seriously flawed just this year because you don't agree with the outcome this year?

 

Maybe the other shows "got it wrong". Or maybe things changed over the season.

 

If you look week to week over this marching band season, scores and placings fluctuated. There's a reason for that. Bands shows evolve, they clean at different rates, and there are different judging panels. Judges are not perfect. Most of them make a good effort to rate the bands fairly, but sometimes personal preference and 'politics' can come into play. Certain shows may really resonate with one judge one week and not resonate with another judge the next week. I won't get into politics too much, but this years isu panel were all from outside Illinois, and probably had little, if any preconceived notions about where bands should be slotted. Thats what probably allowed Plainfield North, for example, to not only make finals, but also to place well in finals.

 

Did you look at the credentials of the judging panel? Pretty impressive. Most of these folks have never judged at isu, so to say that isu doesn't ever get it right really isn't fair. If you don't agree with the outcome on Saturday, fine, and that can happen at any show, especially if the band that you follow doesn't place or score as well you feel they should have.

 

But please don't use scores from earlier in the season to determine who should or shouldn't score well at the end of the season. There would be no reason to actually have the isu competition if we did that.

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Does anyone know / can explain how some of the big marching band states (ie, Texas) do their championships?
Here's how Indiana does it, because that's the one I'm more familiar with:

 

The first ISSMA competition of the season is districts. There were 7 sites around the state, and all bands that chose to compete in ISSMA competed at their district. There's 4 classes in Indiana; A, B, C, and D, done by school size. Bands are rated on a gold, silver and bronze criteria; scores are not publically announced. Anyways, all bands that score gold in district advance to regionals. 4 regional sites across the state; A/C have 2 sites, and B/D have 2. The top 10 scoring bands from each regional class advance to Semi-State, which was this past weekend. The top 20 bands in each class compete head-to-head at semi-state, and the top 10 scoring bands from each class advance to State, which is this upcoming weekend.

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Neither ISU nor U of I is interested in creating a show that really does a good job of selecting the top 14 bands. If they were, they'd do random draw (no classes). None of the systems, past or present, have been setup to select the best 14 (or ten, or whatever).

 

I think a BOA idea of classes could work: top 12 (or 10, or 14) scores automatically make finals, and whoever doesn't make finals on score, but wins their class performs in exhibition.

 

Thoughts?

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Is ISU flawed? Yes. No system of judging bands or corps is perfect...it's the nature of the activity.

 

However, I like the new system. I'm a fan of giving more than 10 bands a chance to perform twice. I think ISU is open to change and open to letting the show evolve...I respect that. I think we need to give this new system a couple years to "work out the tweaks."

 

The bands that really seem to be upset are the bands in the "gray area" aka the bottom 7. All of these bands scored in the low 70's or mid box 4. Not the best, but not the worst. They achieve some aspects of their show at a high level, but they also have areas of design and performance that aren't at the same high level. This is a tough place to be...and an even tougher place to move out of and into box 5.

 

 

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Ok - the scores I was quoting were from the last two weeks NOT a month ago. I am not questioning the qualifications of the judges at ISU - I am questioning the system. If every on here honestly thinks the best 14 bands performed in finals, I will drop it. However, I know that that is not the case!

 

If contests that take place throughout the season have no point and scores don't matter why have them? You just said those contests are not an accurate gauge of the bands. Something has to change to ensure that the best groups get in - it's only fair to the staffs and the kids.

 

BOA has it right - why reinvent the wheel, use what works!

 

This new system helped a couple groups get I. That shouldn't but in the end we still had score inflation in 6a.

 

 

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Ok - the scores I was quoting were from the last two weeks NOT a month ago. I not questioning the qualifications of the judges at ISU - I an questioning the system. If every e here honestly thinks the best 14 bands performed in finals, I will drop it. However, I know that that is not the case!

 

If contests that take place throughout the season have no point and scores don't matter why have them? You just said those contests are not an accurate gauge of the bands. Something has to change to ensure that the best groups get in - it's only fair to the staffs and the kids.

 

BOA has it right - why reinvent the wheel, use what works! ISU!

 

Even if ISU used the BOA system, you still might disagree with the results, there is no way to garauntee that....any system can create those results. My opinion is that I would have had a coulee different bands in finals, but that is my opinion....doesn't mean the system is to blame, judges being human is to blame.

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Ok - the scores I was quoting were from the last two weeks NOT a month ago. I not questioning the qualifications of the judges at ISU - I an questioning the system. If every e here honestly thinks the best 14 bands performed in finals, I will drop it. However, I know that that is not the case!

 

If contests that take place throughout the season have no point and scores don't matter why have them? You just said those contests are not an accurate gauge of the bands. Something has to change to ensure that the best groups get in - it's only fair to the staffs and the kids.

 

BOA has it right - why reinvent the wheel, use what works! ISU!

 

Even if ISU used the BOA system, you still might disagree with the results, there is no way to garauntee that....any system can create those results. My opinion is that I would have had a coulee different bands in finals, but that is my opinion....doesn't mean the system is to blame, judges being human is to blame.
solution: create artificial androids to be judges. Problem Solved :)

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Ok - the scores I was quoting were from the last two weeks NOT a month ago. I am not questioning the qualifications of the judges at ISU - I am questioning the system. If every on here honestly thinks the best 14 bands performed in finals, I will drop it. However, I know that that is not the case!

 

If contests that take place throughout the season have no point and scores don't matter why have them? You just said those contests are not an accurate gauge of the bands. Something has to change to ensure that the best groups get in - it's only fair to the staffs and the kids.

 

BOA has it right - why reinvent the wheel, use what works!

 

This new system helped a couple groups get I. That shouldn't but in the end we still had score inflation in 6a.

 

Keep in mind that all the competitions throughout the year have differentiating judging panels and scoring systems, so you really can't put too much stock into stacking them up side by side that much.

 

Also, we have all these competitions throughout the year to help give the students opportunities to put their show on the field and show everyone in the crowd what they have been putting all of their time and effort into creating. It's been said a million times, but I'll say it again. Most the kids in this activity aren't in it to come away with a piece of metal and plastic every week. They're in it because they're passionate about music and they love the adrenaline and feeling they get when they put on a great marching show. Whether that show involves dancing around, a solemn story, a "broadway performance", or just playing a rock show, everyone and i repeat EVERYONE puts in a ton of work in marching band, and they deserve to be able to put it out on the field more times than just at ISU or BOA or whatnot. Don't worry about scores or "gauging the bands". Just let them do their thing. If kids did this to be accurately judged and to win every single time, there'd be a lot less kids in the program.

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Solution: Create a format that promotes growth and consistency for the bands of Illinois. An actual circuit that has guidlines and gives each ensemble clear and consice feedback and scoring to actually help the band progress and grow through the season.

 

That's is the solution!

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OK, so first some people want 'fairness' in finals selection because of smaller classes having to perform much earlier every year. Now that some of the larger schools did not make finals that may have on a normal year, it's the system's fault.

 

The system is giving many people what they wanted which is competitive balance across the spectrum. Honestly, if you can't beat a 70, do you really have the right to belong in a state championship final? Not really; that's why you roll the dice against other bands of your school size and hope it falls your way.

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OK, so first some people want 'fairness' in finals selection because of smaller classes having to perform much earlier every year. Now that some of the larger schools did not make finals that may have on a normal year, it's the system's fault.

 

The system is giving many people what they wanted which is competitive balance across the spectrum. Honestly, if you can't beat a 70, do you really have the right to belong in a state championship final? Not really; that's why you roll the dice against other bands of your school size and hope it falls your way.

The system at ISU was not the reason some larger bands that should have made finals didn't.....it was the judges....Warren shouldn't have made it....system's fault, no.

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OK, so first some people want 'fairness' in finals selection because of smaller classes having to perform much earlier every year. Now that some of the larger schools did not make finals that may have on a normal year, it's the system's fault.

 

The system is giving many people what they wanted which is competitive balance across the spectrum. Honestly, if you can't beat a 70, do you really have the right to belong in a state championship final? Not really; that's why you roll the dice against other bands of your school size and hope it falls your way.

The system at ISU was not the reason some larger bands that should have made finals didn't.....it was the judges....Warren shouldn't have made it....system's fault, no.
I did not see prelims so I can't comment, but Warren was much too large and their design simply gave them no chance to compete. Too many people on the field and a lot of park-'n-blow.

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OK, so first some people want 'fairness' in finals selection because of smaller classes having to perform much earlier every year. Now that some of the larger schools did not make finals that may have on a normal year, it's the system's fault.

 

The system is giving many people what they wanted which is competitive balance across the spectrum. Honestly, if you can't beat a 70, do you really have the right to belong in a state championship final? Not really; that's why you roll the dice against other bands of your school size and hope it falls your way.

The system at ISU was not the reason some larger bands that should have made finals didn't.....it was the judges....Warren shouldn't have made it....system's fault, no.
I do like the new system. It's a fairer representation of the lower class, and really, it should be pushing that many of the big Chicago bands out. Their own performances pushed them out. That being said, Warren Township probably shouldn't have made it in. That one still puzzles me.

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My question to everyone is - Did we really see the top 14 bands in the State of Illinois compete in Finals yesterday?

 

My question for you is were we supposed to? First off, not all of the best bands were even in attendance. This is not a championship, it's just a competition. Sure, it is "the one" for a lot of bands, but I don't think we'll ever see the top 14 bands until we get a different system implemented. All we saw yesterday were the 7 bands from each group that gave the best performances, and then all 14 performing together in finals.

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My take (from one of the bands in the "gray area" of the 1A-4A finalists...).

 

My band, UT, was in 5A til 4 years ago. When we were in 5A, we made finals for something like eleven out of twelve years... After being moved to 4A? We made finals once in the last 3 years... Then under the new rules we made finals. Call it self-interest, but I think the new finals rules give a better chance for the smaller schools.

 

Also, I was pretty impressed by Warren's preliminary performance at least, maybe it was just the sheer grandeur of the spectacle, but I thought it was done well.

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It is very hard for those of us watching to understand judging sometimes because I for one know nothing about music other than what I like and what I don't and that is not how this activity works. I just want my son and his band to be happy with what they gave at the end of the day and not let one competition effect the next. This season our kids are very proud of their show and excited about it and at the bottom line that is what counts. They want to score well and the wins mean alot because that is what gets the attention of people outside of the event to take a notice, but when people stand for them as they leave the field ( I mean those that aren't family ) because they appreciate what they just did that is just as important if not more so.

 

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Ok - the scores I was quoting were from the last two weeks NOT a month ago. I am not questioning the qualifications of the judges at ISU - I am questioning the system. If every on here honestly thinks the best 14 bands performed in finals, I will drop it. However, I know that that is not the case!

 

If contests that take place throughout the season have no point and scores don't matter why have them? You just said those contests are not an accurate gauge of the bands. Something has to change to ensure that the best groups get in - it's only fair to the staffs and the kids.

 

BOA has it right - why reinvent the wheel, use what works!

 

This new system helped a couple groups get I. That shouldn't but in the end we still had score inflation in 6a.

 

Sorry, scores even from last week don't matter. That's the beauty of bringing in outside judges. And that's why each band gets one chance to perform in isu prelims.

 

Also, note that the new system at isu does not claim to bring the top 14 bands to finals - they bring the top 7 from 1-4a and the top 7 from 5-6a. There's a difference. Isu has Never had all of the "top" bands in finals, based on the automatic entry to class winners.

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