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Dan Balash

Scores for 10/24

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Quoting limited to 3 levels deep

Grand Nationals (where a lot of the ISU bands are ending their season) is in 3 weeks, not 5-6.
How many IL bands are NOT done with their season as of yesterday? I think it's a small number.
Herscher

Lake Park

Lemont

Limestone

Lincoln Way East

Marian Catholic

Morton

Metamora

O'Fallon

Victor J. Andrew

 

With all but O'Fallon being at ISU yesterday

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Quoting limited to 3 levels deep

Grand Nationals (where a lot of the ISU bands are ending their season) is in 3 weeks, not 5-6.
How many IL bands are NOT done with their season as of yesterday? I think it's a small number.
Sorry, I'll correct my overexaggeration. Of the finalist bands (which, sorry, forgot to clarify, I was referring to) Marian, Park, Morton, VJA, and LWE aren't done.

-_-

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ISU Finals scores (recap attached):

 

85.80 Marian Catholic

82.55 Lake Park

81.75 Prospect

78.15 Naperville North

76.40 Lincoln-Way North

74.90 Lincoln-Way East

72.15 Victor J. Andrew

71.55 Morton

69.60 Lincoln-Way Central

68.60 Lockport

66.55 Bloomington

60.20 Eureka

 

 

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Quoting limited to 3 levels deep

Well, I don't think it's too much to ask...BOA judges are asked to do this all the time and have success doing so. The problem is when you make it go in order of class instead of having all bands split up with a random draw in prelims, regardless of class.

 

Then you wouldn't see something like Morton getting 15th in prelims, and then getting 8th in finals. I feel for bands like UT, Limestone, etc...they had no chance yesterday once the judges got into 6A. I'm not saying most of the 6A bands aren't strong, but the scores were just silly for some of them at that point.

Did you ever consider that maybe Morton's Prelim performance wasn't up to par, and then they where determined to make up for it in Finals?
Be careful about even bringing up the possibility that it was anything other than judging. It has to be judging when the judges don't agree with the experts on this board. They don't like it when any other band breaks into the circle of bands that they see as the only ones fit for a good score.

 

I find it interesting that everyone slams UofI judging, which by the way I do agree with, and everyone was so excited about the field of judges this year at ISU. But be honest with yourselves: Most people won't be happy with any judging system thats sees anything different than what you think it should be.

 

I think you are right. I think the weather was more a factor for Morton than inflation. They got it together and played well for finals. Doesn't an earlier band usually suffer due to score inflation for later bands when they aren't well known to the 'band world'? Morton is well known and respected in the state and BOA events as an excellent band. They have proven it for several years now.

 

I was also curious if the posted scores changed anyones earlier thoughts about who wouldn't have been in finals if Morton scored a top ten, not that I would expect anyone to admit it. :rolleyes:

 

Perhaps ISU can make it a little fairer and make 6a and 5a go first? They can go in reverse order for 6a to 1a. The next year, 3a and 4a can go first.

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I don't think ISU should change their performance schedule. The current system works fine and, in the cases of non-top ten scoring finalist bands, they compete directly with everyone else in finals. I don't think I've seen or heard of a case of a band in this situation, who is widely-agreed to be top-five worthy, having to go on too early. ISU, it seems, tries to combat any perceived flaws by having an open competition in finals, without exhibition.

 

Morton may have been a victim of their prelims performance slot, but IMO they were no better than 8th in finals anyway. After all, they made finals, so what's the problem? For other bands who think their performance times give them no chance, I would think competing in the same class as a top scoring band would be a gift; if you really measure up to a finals caliber band and deserve to make finals, it's better to play in their performance block because the benchmark has likely been set already instead of falling victim to a panel who has not set their top score or scores of the day yet. Compared to others in smaller classes, that is an advantage.

 

The better bands typically fall into 5A and 6A anyway. They have more resources and a greater population from which to draw talent. But even those who compete in 5A and 6A can make similar arguments that smaller classes can about being blocked with similar competing bands. There can be pitfalls about finding yourself in performance block hell, instead of having an opportunity to set a score for the day earlier on.

 

There are advantages and disadvantages to playing at different points in the day but if the show is so good it'll make finals on its own merit. Most of the bands in 1A-3A and some 4A wouldn't make finals without that automatic bid for the reasons stated above. But some 5A and 6A bands who may have a stronger case ,more times than not, also deal with challenges as well.

 

 

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I was also curious if the posted scores changed anyones earlier thoughts about who wouldn't have been in finals if Morton scored a top ten, not that I would expect anyone to admit it. :rolleyes:
I think you are referring to people believing Bloomington to have been the one out. Honestly, I thought Lockport would have been out had Morton been in, so guess I was right, at least for prelims. Lockport was noticeably better in finals, however, I still enjoyed Bloomington's show more.

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Be careful about even bringing up the possibility that it was anything other than judging. It has to be judging when the judges don't agree with the experts on this board. They don't like it when any other band breaks into the circle of bands that they see as the only ones fit for a good score.

Well, I would disagree with that completely. I think we love the underdog, and we look for the up and coming groups. Six years ago, maybe even five, Morton was barely a blip on the radar. We've all been watching the rise of Bloomington with similar anticipation.

Judging is and always will be an imperfect science. But it can be made better through training, scheduling, and consideration. Most often it's not.

Want to make ISU a "no one argues" show? Throw everyone's name in a hat and random draw times. Make sure the judges don't ever know the class of the band, or even the name before the sheet drops in front of them.

It'll never happen for reasons previously stated in this thread. But it would be nice.

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Want to make ISU a "no one argues" show? Throw everyone's name in a hat and random draw times. Make sure the judges don't ever know the class of the band, or even the name before the sheet drops in front of them.

It'll never happen for reasons previously stated in this thread. But it would be nice.

Wow I would really with this to happen. Would it stop the arguments, the why did or why didn'ts, it should haves, etc. I think not. There's always going to be something to argue about but that is the beauty of this board. Anyway, this idea would really be awesome if it would ever happen. Talk about ... surprise, surprise, surprise!!!!

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Want to make ISU a "no one argues" show? Throw everyone's name in a hat and random draw times. Make sure the judges don't ever know the class of the band, or even the name before the sheet drops in front of them.

It'll never happen for reasons previously stated in this thread. But it would be nice.

Wow I would really with this to happen. Would it stop the arguments, the why did or why didn'ts, it should haves, etc. I think not. There's always going to be something to argue about but that is the beauty of this board. Anyway, this idea would really be awesome if it would ever happen. Talk about ... surprise, surprise, surprise!!!!
I'm pretty sure this will never happen. The reasons why have been discussed before....even if not everyone agrees with them.

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Want to make ISU a "no one argues" show? Throw everyone's name in a hat and random draw times. Make sure the judges don't ever know the class of the band, or even the name before the sheet drops in front of them.

It'll never happen for reasons previously stated in this thread. But it would be nice.

Wow I would really with this to happen. Would it stop the arguments, the why did or why didn'ts, it should haves, etc. I think not. There's always going to be something to argue about but that is the beauty of this board. Anyway, this idea would really be awesome if it would ever happen. Talk about ... surprise, surprise, surprise!!!!
I'm pretty sure this will never happen. The reasons why have been discussed before....even if not everyone agrees with them.
That may be a viable option for finals. Just make their order completely random.

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I find it interesting that everyone slams UofI judging, which by the way I do agree with, and everyone was so excited about the field of judges this year at ISU. But be honest with yourselves: Most people won't be happy with any judging system thats sees anything different than what you think it should be

 

I don't think people (at least I'm giving my opinion here) had a problem with the placements in prelims in each class - the big problem to me was the numbers. Par Example - Morton not finishing in the Top 6-8 range. For the most part the Top 3 were all realistic and nothing that made you go "wow what were the judges thinking?"

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can parents help kids with props during a show? and is there a penalty line for back field??

sorry a little random but i was curious.

There are some rules...but it depends on the contest. Also it is usually up to the timing and penalties judge to allow a parent to help if there is an issue.

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"To me, being perfect is not about that scoreboard out there. It's not about winning. It's about you and your relationship to yourself and your family and your friends. Being perfect is about being able to look your friends in the eye and know that you didn't let them down, because you told them the truth. And that truth is that you did everything that you could. There wasn't one more thing that you could've done."

- Coach Gaines [Friday Night Lights]

 

I know this quote is from a football TV show but it has the same mindset for members of a marching band. After reading all of these posts on this topic I feel that everyone is lacking the most important thing about marching band. Which is working hard and having fun. Playing your heart out and doing the best you can. Knowing that no matter what happens with the judging panel, you know you did your best and so did your band.

 

A wise friend from the Lake Park marching band once told me that Lake Park could have the best performance of their whole season, but end up placing last at ISU and still be proud of them selves. Walking off the field with the feeling that they finished what they started. They created a marching band show from nothing but a group of band members with one goal and one dream. To max out the show and perform it the best they could.

 

Now I promise you, that every single student that marched on that field last night performed their hearts out. They performed the best they could. That they were focused, they were confident, and that they did it. They maxed out their show and they performed. (Of course some bands arent really maxed out yet because their season isnt over yet but you know what I meant)

 

But what I see on these forums when I come home after hearing the results are a bunch of band members or band fans that just dont understand this. Everyone here is complaining that this band deserved to beat this band. Or these guys deserved to be in finals. This judge was total BS! Seriously? Is that what marching band is about? I thought marching band was about performing a show. Doing your best and impressing the crowd. Not about the shiny dust collectors. Not about beating another band. Its not all about making finals either. Its about performing the best you can and leaving the rest on the field.

 

For all I care their could be no judging system. But people want feedback. There could be no trophies. We dont even show them off anyway. There could be no 1st no 2nd. It wouldnt matter and it shouldnt. That is not the point of a marching band. Thats not what being "Perfect" is. Thats not why our band and almost every band goes out to perform. We perform for the crowd. For the feeling it gives us.

 

To be truthful, I bet these band memebers dont even care that you guys think they deserved to be 4th, 5th, or 12th or 1231st. If you have problem with placements that your opinion. But lets redefine what these forums are about. Are they here to discuss which band is BETTER than which band? OR is it here to discuss about a bands achievements?

 

Its okay to have predictions. Thats cool. But then to get results and find that your predictions were wrong and then go about all pissed off. All debating, frustrated that your band didnt get the awards or placements YOU wanted it to get is something that you should keep inside your own head. Why cant you say how you enjoyed bands instead of bashing bands. or stating your opinion on whcih bands you liked.

 

Final summation. Bands are out here to perform. All bands do the best they could. Who cares what place they got? Leave it on the field. We all performed, we did our best, we are proud of eachother and us. Stating that you thought another band deserved to win or beat another band is like saying they deserved the bigger trophy. Because that is the only thing that they benefit from getting a higher place. If they didnt make finals well they still had a great performance. Who are you to speak for them and make assessments of members that you werent apart of? IF you are apart of the band and your complaining then that is just sad and degrading. In conclusion, every band performed they best, did the best they could, bands maxed out their shows, they impressed the crowd, they built something out of nothing and they are proud of it and they can look at their fellow bandmates and know they didnt let them down. In my eyes they are perfect. Because thats what being perfect is.

 

I will not be replying to any replies to this post.

I would just like to say that every band did a wonderful job and that I dont care what place you got, you performed and gave us a great show and you should be proud of your selves.

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"To me, being perfect is not about that scoreboard out there. It's not about winning. It's about you and your relationship to yourself and your family and your friends. Being perfect is about being able to look your friends in the eye and know that you didn't let them down, because you told them the truth. And that truth is that you did everything that you could. There wasn't one more thing that you could've done."

- Coach Gaines [Friday Night Lights]

 

I know this quote is from a football TV show but it has the same mindset for members of a marching band. After reading all of these posts on this topic I feel that everyone is lacking the most important thing about marching band. Which is working hard and having fun. Playing your heart out and doing the best you can. Knowing that no matter what happens with the judging panel, you know you did your best and so did your band.

 

A wise friend from the Lake Park marching band once told me that Lake Park could have the best performance of their whole season, but end up placing last at ISU and still be proud of them selves. Walking off the field with the feeling that they finished what they started. They created a marching band show from nothing but a group of band members with one goal and one dream. To max out the show and perform it the best they could.

 

Now I promise you, that every single student that marched on that field last night performed their hearts out. They performed the best they could. That they were focused, they were confident, and that they did it. They maxed out their show and they performed. (Of course some bands arent really maxed out yet because their season isnt over yet but you know what I meant)

 

But what I see on these forums when I come home after hearing the results are a bunch of band members or band fans that just dont understand this. Everyone here is complaining that this band deserved to beat this band. Or these guys deserved to be in finals. This judge was total BS! Seriously? Is that what marching band is about? I thought marching band was about performing a show. Doing your best and impressing the crowd. Not about the shiny dust collectors. Not about beating another band. Its not all about making finals either. Its about performing the best you can and leaving the rest on the field.

 

For all I care their could be no judging system. But people want feedback. There could be no trophies. We dont even show them off anyway. There could be no 1st no 2nd. It wouldnt matter and it shouldnt. That is not the point of a marching band. Thats not what being "Perfect" is. Thats not why our band and almost every band goes out to perform. We perform for the crowd. For the feeling it gives us.

 

To be truthful, I bet these band memebers dont even care that you guys think they deserved to be 4th, 5th, or 12th or 1231st. If you have problem with placements that your opinion. But lets redefine what these forums are about. Are they here to discuss which band is BETTER than which band? OR is it here to discuss about a bands achievements?

 

Its okay to have predictions. Thats cool. But then to get results and find that your predictions were wrong and then go about all pissed off. All debating, frustrated that your band didnt get the awards or placements YOU wanted it to get is something that you should keep inside your own head. Why cant you say how you enjoyed bands instead of bashing bands. or stating your opinion on whcih bands you liked.

 

Final summation. Bands are out here to perform. All bands do the best they could. Who cares what place they got? Leave it on the field. We all performed, we did our best, we are proud of eachother and us. Stating that you thought another band deserved to win or beat another band is like saying they deserved the bigger trophy. Because that is the only thing that they benefit from getting a higher place. If they didnt make finals well they still had a great performance. Who are you to speak for them and make assessments of members that you werent apart of? IF you are apart of the band and your complaining then that is just sad and degrading. In conclusion, every band performed they best, did the best they could, bands maxed out their shows, they impressed the crowd, they built something out of nothing and they are proud of it and they can look at their fellow bandmates and know they didnt let them down. In my eyes they are perfect. Because thats what being perfect is.

 

I will not be replying to any replies to this post.

I would just like to say that every band did a wonderful job and that I dont care what place you got, you performed and gave us a great show and you should be proud of your selves.

You know, for once, I'm going to have to agree with you. Well said.

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"To me, being perfect is not about that scoreboard out there. It's not about winning. It's about you and your relationship to yourself and your family and your friends. Being perfect is about being able to look your friends in the eye and know that you didn't let them down, because you told them the truth. And that truth is that you did everything that you could. There wasn't one more thing that you could've done."

- Coach Gaines [Friday Night Lights]

 

I know this quote is from a football TV show but it has the same mindset for members of a marching band. After reading all of these posts on this topic I feel that everyone is lacking the most important thing about marching band. Which is working hard and having fun. Playing your heart out and doing the best you can. Knowing that no matter what happens with the judging panel, you know you did your best and so did your band.

 

A wise friend from the Lake Park marching band once told me that Lake Park could have the best performance of their whole season, but end up placing last at ISU and still be proud of them selves. Walking off the field with the feeling that they finished what they started. They created a marching band show from nothing but a group of band members with one goal and one dream. To max out the show and perform it the best they could.

 

Now I promise you, that every single student that marched on that field last night performed their hearts out. They performed the best they could. That they were focused, they were confident, and that they did it. They maxed out their show and they performed. (Of course some bands arent really maxed out yet because their season isnt over yet but you know what I meant)

 

But what I see on these forums when I come home after hearing the results are a bunch of band members or band fans that just dont understand this. Everyone here is complaining that this band deserved to beat this band. Or these guys deserved to be in finals. This judge was total BS! Seriously? Is that what marching band is about? I thought marching band was about performing a show. Doing your best and impressing the crowd. Not about the shiny dust collectors. Not about beating another band. Its not all about making finals either. Its about performing the best you can and leaving the rest on the field.

 

For all I care their could be no judging system. But people want feedback. There could be no trophies. We dont even show them off anyway. There could be no 1st no 2nd. It wouldnt matter and it shouldnt. That is not the point of a marching band. Thats not what being "Perfect" is. Thats not why our band and almost every band goes out to perform. We perform for the crowd. For the feeling it gives us.

 

To be truthful, I bet these band memebers dont even care that you guys think they deserved to be 4th, 5th, or 12th or 1231st. If you have problem with placements that your opinion. But lets redefine what these forums are about. Are they here to discuss which band is BETTER than which band? OR is it here to discuss about a bands achievements?

 

Its okay to have predictions. Thats cool. But then to get results and find that your predictions were wrong and then go about all pissed off. All debating, frustrated that your band didnt get the awards or placements YOU wanted it to get is something that you should keep inside your own head. Why cant you say how you enjoyed bands instead of bashing bands. or stating your opinion on whcih bands you liked.

 

Final summation. Bands are out here to perform. All bands do the best they could. Who cares what place they got? Leave it on the field. We all performed, we did our best, we are proud of eachother and us. Stating that you thought another band deserved to win or beat another band is like saying they deserved the bigger trophy. Because that is the only thing that they benefit from getting a higher place. If they didnt make finals well they still had a great performance. Who are you to speak for them and make assessments of members that you werent apart of? IF you are apart of the band and your complaining then that is just sad and degrading. In conclusion, every band performed they best, did the best they could, bands maxed out their shows, they impressed the crowd, they built something out of nothing and they are proud of it and they can look at their fellow bandmates and know they didnt let them down. In my eyes they are perfect. Because thats what being perfect is.

 

I will not be replying to any replies to this post.

I would just like to say that every band did a wonderful job and that I dont care what place you got, you performed and gave us a great show and you should be proud of your selves.

You know, for once, I'm going to have to agree with you. Well said.
He might be on to something. Great post

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I don't think that anyone really disagrees with the fact that they love this activity and that's the reason they work through all the tough times, to get that feeling walking off the field at a show. I don't know of anyone that would rather have a crappy show and win.

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I'm sorry, but to debate is the purpose of the forum. No one thinks less of the other bands as people when they say they preferred band A over band B. All that is meant is that Band A happens to tickle their fancy more than band B. To discuss opinion is why this topic exists. I don't think a single band is not proud of what they did on Saturday. But what is so wrong about spectators talking about what they thought? The conversation so far has been completely civil. No one is trying to discredit the effort or spirit of any band. All that is said is opinion on performance.

 

If we can't talk about our opinion on marching bands, then what do we talk about?

 

I thought the corn dog stand outside the stadium smelled nice.

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I don't think that anyone really disagrees with the fact that they love this activity and that's the reason they work through all the tough times, to get that feeling walking off the field at a show. I don't know of anyone that would rather have a crappy show and win.
Totally agree.

Those of you who are done with high school marching band will most likely agree with me that it is not the placement, the awards, or recognition that you remember, it is the feeling of marching a good show, hitting a set, playing the best you can. For those of you who that are still marching try this, march for yourself, do it because you want to do the best you can. Don't work towards a placement work for a goal that no one can take away: self-happiness and pride.

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