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Lincoln-Way West

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It must be so exciting for that group to start new traditions of their own. They're in a rare position.
I agree. I hope they have as great of a start as Lincoln Way North

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I have quite a few friends from last years Marching Knights that went over to West Warriors, and they say not only are they having a great time, and working hard. But the director Mr. Steve Nedzel seems to think that they are on a good track for a great competitive year! So, I am interested to see how West does in the next few months, before the competitions start!

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I hate to say it, but at some point I see one of these LW schools dropping off the map in marching band. I just don't see each school able to maintain a high level of success. Don't get me wrong, they'll still be good programs, but in three years I bet we'll see East and North considerably out in front of Central and West.

 

Hopefully I'm wrong....and they're all really strong, since more strong bands is good for Illinois as a whole.

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I hate to say it, but at some point I see one of these LW schools dropping off the map in marching band. I just don't see each school able to maintain a high level of success. Don't get me wrong, they'll still be good programs, but in three years I bet we'll see East and North considerably out in front of Central and West.

 

Hopefully I'm wrong....and they're all really strong, since more strong bands is good for Illinois as a whole.

From what I've seen, particularly with L-dubs versus other schools its size, map presence is 70% staff, 20% school population, and 10% other. I really only apply this to those four schools, because the administration has always been supportive of the music programs. When Lincoln-Way won ISU in 1999, East and Central thrived on it through the time I joined in East in 2002. The staffs at the school will determine the success, and the groups will build off the year to year successes.

 

The point where I differ with robes is over a long period of time, I'd bet we'll see Central equally as influential in IL bands as any other L-dub school. There's a pride there only that school can completely understand, and the Marching Knights are the centerpiece of that pride. After all, I did take up trumpet in hopes of becoming a Marching Knight.

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I hate to say it, but at some point I see one of these LW schools dropping off the map in marching band. I just don't see each school able to maintain a high level of success. Don't get me wrong, they'll still be good programs, but in three years I bet we'll see East and North considerably out in front of Central and West.

 

Hopefully I'm wrong....and they're all really strong, since more strong bands is good for Illinois as a whole.

From what I've seen, particularly with L-dubs versus other schools its size, map presence is 70% staff, 20% school population, and 10% other. I really only apply this to those four schools, because the administration has always been supportive of the music programs. When Lincoln-Way won ISU in 1999, East and Central thrived on it through the time I joined in East in 2002. The staffs at the school will determine the success, and the groups will build off the year to year successes.

 

The point where I differ with robes is over a long period of time, I'd bet we'll see Central equally as influential in IL bands as any other L-dub school. There's a pride there only that school can completely understand, and the Marching Knights are the centerpiece of that pride. After all, I did take up trumpet in hopes of becoming a Marching Knight.

I completely agree with the statement above, being a graduate of LWC in 2009, and a marching knight for the past 4 years, I do know that the school does support the music program very much so, and that the school, as well as the student body do respect, and take pride in the fact that LWC's marching band, although not the best, is a great marching program.

 

I think that the way that the traditions are past on from year to year, will actually deturmine the sucess of the band. Because like stated above, deturmining on how well the band's reputation from the last year, it will influence the current year to strive above that of the year above. Now I do understand that when compairing the LW's East will overcome Central, but I will doubt if North will ever catch up. In my personal opinion I belive it will always be East and Central for the 1st and 2nd of the LW's and North and West for the 3rd and 4th. (this is ranking the LW's not placing them in a competition)

 

Again this is all my own opinion. But like I said this is graded on a fair and same ground. Now if you look at each program itself, you will notice the different style and such that each band posesses. East has a great sound, and great marching, with the slight visual added in. And Central, in my opinion, has better sound, and marching style, but lacks in the visual and crowd appeal style that East has. This is all the way the Directors make it.

 

Ofcourse with Central and West split and one new director to each school, things may change, I would not doubt if Central or West includes more visual into their program. It is the Directors that make the program how they want it, and with new directors anything is possible!

 

Please do not attack me, these are just my personal and un-biased views on the LW's.

And I will say they all do a great job!

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these are just my personal and un-biased views on the LW's.

 

I'd say it's probably pretty hard for you to be completely un-biased, considering you attended LWC. So you go ahead and be biased!! ;)

 

I still think LWC will be pretty good. I just think the directors at East and North have proven to be a little bit more progressive in their ideas and seem to be moving in the direction of more contemporary shows. I don't think LWC is stuck in the past or anything, I just don't they're as "out there" as the other two.

 

Time will tell. What cannot be argued is the immeasurable influence of the Lincoln-Way total program over the past decades. Truly an impressive story, and an impressive group of bands.

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Staff, staff, staff. It's all about staff. Population and quality feeder programs are also important. But it's really all about the staff.

 

Go Lincoln-Way(s)! While I was a Knight, it's really exciting to see FOUR schools fielding bands. I'm sure Mr. Nedzel is doing a great job with his kids!

 

DK, do you have plans to continue marching anywhere now that you've graduated? Also, who are you? I think I might know you as we did march one year together.

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While staff is definitely important, the quality of the feeder program (as someone else mentioned) is also important. The important differentiation here, however, is not quality as in "this program produces the best players in district" but quality as in "this program creates interested musicians." My perception was (in what was the East part of the district when i was in HS) that Frankfort (hickory creek) often put out the best players, but the Summmit Hill kids were the most involved. My senior year, a disproportionate number of leadership and of the graduation seniors were people i went to jr. high with. That is not to say Mokena or Frankfort were not represented or uninvolved, it just that pushing 2/3 of the seniors were people from the square. Similar was true my junior year also. This is not scientific, I don't have my old yearbooks out, but looking at the senior picture that is still on my desk, thats what it looks like.

 

My point is that feeder programs that put out kids that enjoy the music and the band activity will stick with the group, giving a consistency to membership and creating a dedicated core of leaders. All the talent (staff or student) in the world cannot help a group faced with continual instability. (In contradiciton, look at LW winning ISU in 1999 and LWE winning in 2006, both Clif Smith's 4th year with the program. The stability of a talented director allowed student talent to blossom at a higher level)

 

Conclusion: I don't know enough about the feeder schools on the formerly central side of the district to justify a prediction, but I'll try anyway. I expect LWE to continue the success it has found in the past few years, with North being competitive when Messr Johnson finds his feet on his own (that is without working with Messr Smith). On the other side, I see LWC being stronger just b/c of its tradition (if for no other reason than I started playing wanting to be a marching knight and shout 'band are you ready' as drum major) and the community support that program holds b/c so many people in the area were marching knights (not griffins, warriors, or phoenix [which i think is the correct plural form]). So I'd expect LWE, LWC/LWN, LWW in the next for years.

 

Full Disclosure: I went to LWE (obviously), attended the (old) summit hill jr. high school, and will not be a happy camper if, after wasting almost 5 years on here, the post counter continues to call me a rookie.

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While staff is definitely important, the quality of the feeder program (as someone else mentioned) is also important. The important differentiation here, however, is not quality as in "this program produces the best players in district" but quality as in "this program creates interested musicians." My perception was (in what was the East part of the district when i was in HS) that Frankfort (hickory creek) often put out the best players, but the Summmit Hill kids were the most involved. My senior year, a disproportionate number of leadership and of the graduation seniors were people i went to jr. high with. That is not to say Mokena or Frankfort were not represented or uninvolved, it just that pushing 2/3 of the seniors were people from the square. Similar was true my junior year also. This is not scientific, I don't have my old yearbooks out, but looking at the senior picture that is still on my desk, thats what it looks like.

 

My point is that feeder programs that put out kids that enjoy the music and the band activity will stick with the group, giving a consistency to membership and creating a dedicated core of leaders. All the talent (staff or student) in the world cannot help a group faced with continual instability. (In contradiciton, look at LW winning ISU in 1999 and LWE winning in 2006, both Clif Smith's 4th year with the program. The stability of a talented director allowed student talent to blossom at a higher level)

 

Conclusion: I don't know enough about the feeder schools on the formerly central side of the district to justify a prediction, but I'll try anyway. I expect LWE to continue the success it has found in the past few years, with North being competitive when Messr Johnson finds his feet on his own (that is without working with Messr Smith). On the other side, I see LWC being stronger just b/c of its tradition (if for no other reason than I started playing wanting to be a marching knight and shout 'band are you ready' as drum major) and the community support that program holds b/c so many people in the area were marching knights (not griffins, warriors, or phoenix [which i think is the correct plural form]). So I'd expect LWE, LWC/LWN, LWW in the next for years.

 

Full Disclosure: I went to LWE (obviously), attended the (old) summit hill jr. high school, and will not be a happy camper if, after wasting almost 5 years on here, the post counter continues to call me a rookie.

Not trying to be rude, but I recall LWE coming in with an uber close second to Marian at ISU in 2006. They did win 6A that year but one would think you where talking about winning finals because of your reference to LW win in 1999.

 

I do agree that having a stable program does make the program run smoother. But I think that eventually that the LW programs will reach a stable point that allows all of the programs to really develop without having to be worried about splits and new schools. But when that point will be reached, I do not know. lol

 

And btw, you can make a custom title for yourself so that it doesn't say rookie. Just go to edit profile and there should be a box that says member title where you can put your custom name in.

 

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<snip>

And will not be a happy camper if, after wasting almost 5 years on here, the post counter continues to call me a rookie.

 

You can change your member title, and also, once you get to 5 posts, you can start topics as well.

 

 

The "default" member titles are:

Rookie:0-25 posts

Member: 25-50

Veteran:50-100

SuperVeteran:100-250

UltraVeteran:250-500

ILmarching Resident PhD:500+

 

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Staff, staff, staff. It's all about staff. Population and quality feeder programs are also important. But it's really all about the staff.

 

Go Lincoln-Way(s)! While I was a Knight, it's really exciting to see FOUR schools fielding bands. I'm sure Mr. Nedzel is doing a great job with his kids!

 

DK, do you have plans to continue marching anywhere now that you've graduated? Also, who are you? I think I might know you as we did march one year together.

Personally I agree with this post due to the fact that I believe that although the talents of the students do shine through when a show is being performed. I think that the director and staff have all to do with how the band develops and at what rate it does. With new Direction comes new traditions and new overall styles, being that both LWC and LWW will have the head directors 7+ year veterians from LWC Marching Knights, the style may not change too much as the new staff are just the assistants and techs.

 

However I could be wrong too, on both opinions, Staff, if given the worst musically talented students, can only strive to achieve the best that they can do, which compaired to another band that is filled with exceptionary students, that first band will be considered normal. However, I also could be wrong on the styles, because the techs and assistant directors do have a lot to do with the band and their progression, because (this coming from my own personal experience) you see, and spend an exceptional time with the techs and lower assistant directors. They are the ones that are out on the field helping you, and giving you advice when they see fit. It is pretty rare to see the Head director out on the field giving instructions other than counting off and giving set orders.

 

I, all in all, do think that it is a combo of students willingness, determination, musical talent, and drive in combination with the directors teaching and particular way of pushing the band to be all that it can be.

 

Again just my thoughts.

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Staff, staff, staff. It's all about staff. Population and quality feeder programs are also important. But it's really all about the staff.

 

Go Lincoln-Way(s)! While I was a Knight, it's really exciting to see FOUR schools fielding bands. I'm sure Mr. Nedzel is doing a great job with his kids!

 

DK, do you have plans to continue marching anywhere now that you've graduated? Also, who are you? I think I might know you as we did march one year together.

and to answer your question, I am no longer marching, although I have been considering playing in the Joliet Junior College's Wind Ensemble and sing in their Chamber Choir.

 

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Staff, staff, staff. It's all about staff. Population and quality feeder programs are also important. But it's really all about the staff.

 

Go Lincoln-Way(s)! While I was a Knight, it's really exciting to see FOUR schools fielding bands. I'm sure Mr. Nedzel is doing a great job with his kids!

 

DK, do you have plans to continue marching anywhere now that you've graduated? Also, who are you? I think I might know you as we did march one year together.

Personally I agree with this post due to the fact that I believe that although the talents of the students do shine through when a show is being performed. I think that the director and staff have all to do with how the band develops and at what rate it does. With new Direction comes new traditions and new overall styles, being that both LWC and LWW will have the head directors 7+ year veterians from LWC Marching Knights, the style may not change too much as the new staff are just the assistants and techs.

 

However I could be wrong too, on both opinions, Staff, if given the worst musically talented students, can only strive to achieve the best that they can do, which compaired to another band that is filled with exceptionary students, that first band will be considered normal. However, I also could be wrong on the styles, because the techs and assistant directors do have a lot to do with the band and their progression, because (this coming from my own personal experience) you see, and spend an exceptional time with the techs and lower assistant directors. They are the ones that are out on the field helping you, and giving you advice when they see fit. It is pretty rare to see the Head director out on the field giving instructions other than counting off and giving set orders.

 

I, all in all, do think that it is a combo of students willingness, determination, musical talent, and drive in combination with the directors teaching and particular way of pushing the band to be all that it can be.

 

Again just my thoughts.

While what you said is true, it's more than that.

 

Show design is a key factor in determining a band's success. While the talent of the kids on the field is certainly the most important of any student experience, without a well-designed show, those kids can only go so far competitively.

 

The fact of the matter is that LWE has put out a consistently stronger product from a design standpoint. This is why staff is so important. It's about their understanding of marching (not just music - marching band in college does NOT teach one to direct a successful modern band program) and show design. Then it's about their pedagogical approach to teaching marching band vs. concert band.

 

Staff=Design

Design+Talent=Competitive Success

Competitive Success =/= Actual Success

 

It seems like you really have a passion for marching. You should stay involved and get into the mechanics marching outside of the LWC bubble.

 

That goes for all of you not currently involved in any sort of marching activity! Get on board if you are still of age to do so!

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a couple things

 

1) I had my year wrong in my previous post. LWE won ISU in 2007 in Smith's fourth year, making my comparison make more sense. In 2006, they won 6A and were second overall. That error does not diminish the counterexample, 2007 just makes it clearer

 

2) Staff does make creative decisions, setting the upper bound on program success, but its important to keep in mind that staff goes together with students experience/expectations, which are driven by the stability in the program (my previous post), the actual talent of incoming students (touched on previously), and the expectations of the program (this is all among other things, but I'm trying to simplify this)*. I'd expect LWW students to have a similar experience to the first year at LWE. There will be older students who will be adverse to change b/c its not what they know and the program at large will be looking for an identity. The problem faced by LWE then, LWN and LWW and all LWx's to come, is the last point. The expectations of the program are unknown. You can guess what they are b/c of where they are coming from, but you cannot REALLY know. Until that staff, that specific group of students, etc. all get together you cannot really know. Obviously this carries year to year in any program, but with fewer unknowns b/c the staff will be established and returning students have a clearer idea of expectations. I think LWE will be the most dominant program in the next few years b/c of this idea. The staff is firmly in place, the incoming talent will not change much, and the expectations are clear. If any year would have been a drop off, on would have expected 2008 to be, but they still were still successful. I say LWN and LWC next because they have the next most stable programs b/c of established staff. However, LWN, being young, is still trying to find itselt and faces a new mix of students while LWC will face a different mix of incoming students this year and some staff chagnes. I have LWW last b/c of the instability. New staff, a new mix of students, new expectations.

 

*If anyone has a background in economics, I'm basically adapting the ideas of the Solow growth model to an organization rather than an economy

 

3) Remember this is only my opinion, and not fact. LW also provides a great counter example to this model. 1995 (i think this is the correct year) LW finished 2nd at ISU behind LP in a year where LP won grand nationals in the first year of a new director, Rich Ervin (a show entitle "Ascension," they pressed a CD if you can get a copy, its still probably my favorite LW show). This basically disproves all of point 2 b/c he came in after Randy Kummer (the gentleman who really built the LW prgram and i'm sure i've spelled his name wrong) retired. It was a very, very close finish (akin to LWE/Marian in 2006, but closer) and helped to fan the old school tensions between LP and LW. The point here is just the #2 is my opinion, so chill out if you disagree. I'm just applying what I know to what i experienced as a student and what i perceive now as a spectator.

 

4) To admins, et al: I'm guessing it changed when the new form of the forums came up, but my comment in relation to being a "rookie" was that while i've been an infrequent poster, I have ~140 messages saved on my computer that I've posted here in the past ~5 years (I'm unbelievably obsessive compulsive, and save the longer posts i write here, as well as all my old homework, junior high through 4 years of college). Aparently however, the comment was lost on most everyone and makes me think I'm the only one to encounter this.

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1995 LP was only a class champion I believe, with Centergrove winning in finals. 1996 was when they won the whole thing. And yes, i LOVE that 95 LW, one of my all time favorites, though I did love their 96 show too. Those were the good old days.
Westfield (Texas) was the AAA Class Champion in 1995. Center Grove was 2nd, Lake Park was 3rd.

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Lincoln-Way West is having a Exhibition Concert on Thursday, August 6th at the LWW football field.

 

7:00 P.M.

 

They'll be performing parts of their 2009 program "Warrior: Raising to Battle" as well as the pregame show and traditional music.

 

 

I may go. If anyone wants to join me, they're more than welcome to meet up with me. :)

 

 

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