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Dan Balash

ISU 2009

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I would just like to say that watching Lake Park play their chorale for Marian was probably the highlight of the evening for me. It's been so long since I've seen that and really it just made me indescribably happy. I had been rooting for LP so I was a little disappointed when they took 2nd but Marian really had a great show and to see LP turn and play for them really just made me feel all warm and fuzzy inside. There's a lot of class between those two organizations.

 

Anyways, it was a really great day, quite a few very enjoyable performances. I'm very glad I made it down there.

I thought that was absolutely amazing that they did that for Marian. I have a lot of respect for Lake Park for that (not that I didn't respect them before, mind you).

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I would just like to say that watching Lake Park play their chorale for Marian was probably the highlight of the evening for me. It's been so long since I've seen that and really it just made me indescribably happy. I had been rooting for LP so I was a little disappointed when they took 2nd but Marian really had a great show and to see LP turn and play for them really just made me feel all warm and fuzzy inside. There's a lot of class between those two organizations.

 

Anyways, it was a really great day, quite a few very enjoyable performances. I'm very glad I made it down there.

I goto Marian and that was the highlight of my night. Not the show not winning or any of that. That other stuff was all great and all but I didn't shed a tear because we had won I shed a tear when Lake Park played for us. I think all bands should strive to not just be good at what they do but to be just great people like Lake Park. Thank you again Lake Park for making my senior year, last year performing at ISU something very special that will stick with me forever!
aw that makes me warm and fuzzy to see that amount of class from marian and lake park

lake park because they played for marian

 

marian because you said that it was the highlight of your night even over winning. congrats though, on a great winning show. I hope that the person that fell is ok btw. Anyways, I don't know what the "motto" or "beliefs" of each band are, but I like bands with class who know that you can get a trophy anytime, but the memory will be in the great performance and the relationships with other great bands. With marian having a great reputation for winning, it could easily be thought that that's all you focus on. (I never thought that, but people have) but I'm happy to hear that it's not true.

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not too often does one see a 1A band in state championship finals.

 

Not to be rude, but every year there is a 1A band in finals. The 1A class winner is always in finals. That is how Eureka got into finals. Regardless, congrats to Eureka and every band performing in finals. It was a great show.

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good job all! Marian, Prospect, LP wow! and Eureka, well done making finals! not too often does one see a 1A band in state championship finals.

 

BTW, does anyone have scores yet?

Prelims scores are posted.

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not too often does one see a 1A band in state championship finals.

 

Not to be rude, but every year there is a 1A band in finals. The 1A class winner is always in finals. That is how Eureka got into finals. Regardless, congrats to Eureka and every band performing in finals. It was a great show.
This is correct. I can't remember when they started this rule (I am sure Dan knows)...but ISU takes the top 10 scoring bands and then any class winners that were not top 10. This year for example, there were 10 top bands. Class 3A-6A winners had top 10 scores. So they added Class 1A and 2A into the mix as well. Making 12 bands in finals.

 

I just think it's dumb...that limestone had to perform after Marian for the past 3 years! lol hats off to marian but give us a chance =P

You should be giving yourselves a chance! I absolutely loved Limestone's show this year...and I give Mr. Empey 2-3 years, and he will have you guys marching at close to a top 10 level. Then you won't need to beat Marian to get into finals. And it is possible to get into finals in 3A without winning. See 2005 I think, Lemont did it.

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You should be giving yourselves a chance! I absolutely loved Limestone's show this year...and I give Mr. Empey 2-3 years, and he will have you guys marching at close to a top 10 level. Then you won't need to beat Marian to get into finals. And it is possible to get into finals in 3A without winning. See 2005 I think, Lemont did it.
not sure if they were in 3A at the time, but Lemont made finals in 2006 with Ghost Train.

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You should be giving yourselves a chance! I absolutely loved Limestone's show this year...and I give Mr. Empey 2-3 years, and he will have you guys marching at close to a top 10 level. Then you won't need to beat Marian to get into finals. And it is possible to get into finals in 3A without winning. See 2005 I think, Lemont did it.
not sure if they were in 3A at the time, but Lemont made finals in 2006 with Ghost Train.
I was thinking of 2006. Marian had just moved to 3A and Lemont was still in 3A (as I believe they have always been). Marian won by a landslide but Lemont had a top 10 score and made finals any way.

 

http://ilmarching.com/scores_indiv.php?c=102

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i agree with the different panels, but will severly miss the percussion and color guard judges at our "state champs"

Granted, they don't matter to the overall score, but it was something the kids in the sections hoped for and worked for

The color guard and percussion sections should be working to be apart of the entire package...not an entity of its own within a production. I would think and hope that the goal would be to produce success for the entire marching band, not just one section. These two sections are already judged in more then one caption. You dont have "best clarinets" or "outstanding trombones." Good music and visual judges will be making apropos comments about all sections. Need or want specialized feedback on your percussion or color guard...hire a clinician or participate in the indoor portion of these activities.
I believe that the extra captions are necessary because the percussion and color guard are quite independent from the rest of the band. Yes the music blends and plays a part of the whole show, but one could realistically watch the drumline for the entire show (or the guard) and be more entertained that watching just the mellophones for the simple reason that the two aforementioned sections stand out from the ensemble substantially more than the rest of the sections. The drumline plays more notes, and the colorguard contributes to most of the visual effect of a show. The two also do more sectional time apart from the band just to stand out to the audience and put on a "show within a show" as it were. I understand both viewpoints, I simply believe that there is a quite rational argument for the necessity of seperate percussion and guard captions.

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i agree with the different panels, but will severly miss the percussion and color guard judges at our "state champs"

Granted, they don't matter to the overall score, but it was something the kids in the sections hoped for and worked for

The color guard and percussion sections should be working to be apart of the entire package...not an entity of its own within a production. I would think and hope that the goal would be to produce success for the entire marching band, not just one section. These two sections are already judged in more then one caption. You dont have "best clarinets" or "outstanding trombones." Good music and visual judges will be making apropos comments about all sections. Need or want specialized feedback on your percussion or color guard...hire a clinician or participate in the indoor portion of these activities.
You are missing a very key part of this activity...education.

 

Percussion as a whole has a vast array of tecniques and large variety of instrumentation. It's far more to it then slamming sticks into a head.

 

I really don't feel that it's right to adjudicate a line based on balance within the ensemble alone. Which is what is going to happen. now that should be a part equation but there is far more to a good drumline then that. A good drumline also executes their book both musically and rythmically. Has an understanding and displays the proper technique orthe instrument they are playing. And executes a challenging book. That's a good drumline.

 

I'm sorry but I can't see a panel of judges that are going to be off the field accuratly scoring a drumline. Especially if there isn't someone qualified to make percussion comments on the panel.

 

These drumlines have been scored a certain way all year and now it's going to be changed? It's a little bogus if ask me.

 

They should have just axed the captions. That's more or less what they did. The score will have zero merit and the tapes will have zero constructive comments to help improve the kids as performers

 

There is just to much going on from a technique level to accuratly score these captions. I'm going to say it right now the drumlines will be placed in relatively the exact order of the music scores are and are going to be directly related to the size of the hornline because it has a better chance of balancing.

The one thing that I am not missing is the education aspect. I completely agree with you and understand that percussion has a wide variety of techniques and instrumentation. No one I know thinks that "slamming sticks into a head" is a good thing, though I'm sure someone does. *shrug*

 

Your argument, though, could apply to any section on the field, though. Every section should be executing their book both musically and rhythmically while using proper technique of their instrument. The same thing applies to the visual aspects of a program. All should be demonstrating and using the proper technique that has been taught to them...both from a body and form relationship to the details of hand placement and timing/technique within the color guard.

 

Looking at the order in which the drumlines would place "overall" in relation to the music scores isn't possible unless you were able to see the music judges' tote sheet. On a BOA type sheet there is a number for Brass...a number for Woodwinds...and a number for Percussion when looking at the individual caption. Recaps would only show the total of these numbers. Now, unless the judge has a strong background, one could argue the knowledge, etc. in any of the sub captions. The choice that local competitions make to have additional percussion and color guard judges is obviously theirs. If you feel this is important (and sometimes it may be) then attend those shows. But, by the time you get to a large scale competition like a State contest or even BOA, the cohesiveness of the entire ensemble is what is more important overall. The "what" and "how" of all sections working together to achieve this cohesiveness through the use of their own sectional techniques.

 

BOA, for one example, has had many discussions about the use of the percussion judges and color guard judges and based on the input of numerous programs and directors in this activity, the decision has been that there is enough coverage in the other captions that there is no need for these additional captions or even awards. As I mentioned before, there is not a "best clarinet section" award. If we want specific detailed input and feedback at that level, then we need to bring in clinicians for that. This would be even more educational then a judge who sees us for 10 minutes. At the same time, the indoor/winter season offers a venue for percussion and color guard to get specialized feedback. This, by itself is another way to expand on the education value of everything we do. There is no change to how drumlines have been scored all season. There is just one less specified judge to give a number that, in most cases, does not effect the total overall score, anyway. This is one bad thing about Illinois, though...having so many different ways to score at competitions.

 

I do, also, agree that it is important for the music judges to have a solid background that is enough to give valuable feedback to all sections as pertinent to the production being performed. Larger shows tend to recruit judges who have that background. I seriously doubt that at a show like ISU, or BOA type format shows, that the feedback would have zero merit.

 

While I do not know you personally, my experience in this activity has shown me that percussion and color guard instructors who are so passionate about their specific captions and wanting a specific score and/or trophy more often then not are only wanting to massage their own ego and rarely have the overall program and product in focus. Or, they missed the boat back in the 90's (or even 80's depending on what programs you look at) and are still in that era of show design...where segmentation was common and cohesiveness from a design and education stand point were not as strong.

 

 

 

 

 

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I go to Marian and that was the highlight of my night. Not the show not winning or any of that. That other stuff was all great and all but I didn't shed a tear because we had won I shed a tear when Lake Park played for us. I think all bands should strive to not just be good at what they do but to be just great people like Lake Park. Thank you again Lake Park for making my senior year, last year performing at ISU something very special that will stick with me forever!

I just wanted to congratulate Marian on a great job at State. I go to LP and I know of the history between our bands. Thank you Marian for enabling us to bring back an old tradition by playing for you. I respect Marian very much and being able to play for them was an unforgettable experience.

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I go to Marian and that was the highlight of my night. Not the show not winning or any of that. That other stuff was all great and all but I didn't shed a tear because we had won I shed a tear when Lake Park played for us. I think all bands should strive to not just be good at what they do but to be just great people like Lake Park. Thank you again Lake Park for making my senior year, last year performing at ISU something very special that will stick with me forever!

I just wanted to congratulate Marian on a great job at State. I go to LP and I know of the history between our bands. Thank you Marian for enabling us to bring back an old tradition by playing for you. I respect Marian very much and being able to play for them was an unforgettable experience.
Ahh the love(: This makes me so happy to see everyone being all sweet and classy!

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So a few things

The ISU Competition's status as the "state competition" is not at all in jeopardy because Hersey isn't going. Hersey can be a contender, but usualy they place how they do because of luck. After my bands performance I got the pleasure of watching some excellent bands, such as Lake Park, Marion Catholic and Prospect. I have to say each one of their shows was unique and well crafted. All three deserved the top three spots. Lake Park's show is by far my favorite show if this marching season. The band is a class act, my point being when they turned around and played to Marion Catholic. That is how all bands should respond after they hear the results of a competition.

 

Over all great job to everyone.

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So a few things

The ISU Competition's status as the "state competition" is not at all in jeopardy because Hersey isn't going. Hersey can be a contender, but usualy they place how they do because of luck.

 

This couldn't be farther from the truth. This program is GREAT because of Casagrande. The Symphonic Band has performed at the Midwest Clinic. They beat Prospect on the field at U of I a couple years ago. Hersey is a very good band.

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You should be giving yourselves a chance! I absolutely loved Limestone's show this year...and I give Mr. Empey 2-3 years, and he will have you guys marching at close to a top 10 level. Then you won't need to beat Marian to get into finals. And it is possible to get into finals in 3A without winning. See 2005 I think, Lemont did it.
not sure if they were in 3A at the time, but Lemont made finals in 2006 with Ghost Train.
They where, and Normal West (who was in 3A as well) also got a top ten score that year but could not perform in finals because it was homecoming and the principal wouldn't let them

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So a few things

The ISU Competition's status as the "state competition" is not at all in jeopardy because Hersey isn't going. Hersey can be a contender, but usualy they place how they do because of luck.

 

This couldn't be farther from the truth. This program is GREAT because of Casagrande. The Symphonic Band has performed at the Midwest Clinic. They beat Prospect on the field at U of I a couple years ago. Hersey is a very good band.

Hersey IS a great band, no doubt about that. All the same, no offence but Hersey beating Prospect at U of I really doesn't say anything about them. It's still U of I.

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Hersey IS a great band, no doubt about that. All the same, no offence but Hersey beating Prospect at U of I really doesn't say anything about them. It's still U of I.

 

How about them beating three ISU finalists at Prospect?

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Hersey IS a great band, no doubt about that. All the same, no offence but Hersey beating Prospect at U of I really doesn't say anything about them. It's still U of I.

 

How about them beating three ISU finalists at Prospect?

It was a standstill....

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It was a standstill....

 

I'm aware. It's still a testament to their program, no?

No would ever debate the quality of how that band can play. They are one of the best concert programs in the state, but it isn't a good comparison in marching band when it is a standstill...it means little.

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Agreed. Someone mentioned Hersey's victory over Prospect in field at U of I...take them to a real show where the judging is quality and see how they place. I believe almost everyone crushed them at Lake Park (granted it was the first show of the season, but still.) U of I is not the place to judge if someone is a better quality band than another.

 

Musically, very few bands can touch Hersey, but I really don't feel like they'd do that well at ISU. If they were ever to attend. They'd perhaps be a hit-and-miss finals band (like Waubonsie or Warren) but in the low range, like 1 or 2 up from last.

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Agreed. Someone mentioned Hersey's victory over Prospect in field at U of I...take them to a real show where the judging is quality and see how they place. I believe almost everyone crushed them at Lake Park (granted it was the first show of the season, but still.) U of I is not the place to judge if someone is a better quality band than another.

 

Musically, very few bands can touch Hersey, but I really don't feel like they'd do that well at ISU. If they were ever to attend. They'd perhaps be a hit-and-miss finals band (like Waubonsie or Warren) but in the low range, like 1 or 2 up from last.

 

Hersey was 6th in prelims at Lake Park, which is about where they usually finish there. I think Hersey would do pretty well at ISU. I don't know how much higher I would place them, maybe 7th or 8th, but I feel like they would be a pretty solid lock for finals.

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I gotta agree with clarinetdude.

 

Hersey is a quality marching band. It's not like they came out of nowhere and beat Prospect, they've been gaining on them for the past couple years and finally beat them this year ending Prospect's 20 some-odd year run.

 

I know U of I judging isn't as "quality" as the other shows but U of I judging has constantly been placing Hersey and Prospect pretty close to each other and that consistentcy over the last few years does mean something.

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