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Posts posted by Band8008

  1. Quoting limited to 3 levels deep

    So...you view the fact that Limestone has invested $70,000 (which I've not been able to find a link for anywhere, not saying it isn't true, but saying I don't know if that number is accurate) in a program that is:


    A) Curricular

    B) Technology-based (which is all the rage, and many times reimbursed by the state or by grants that can be applied for all over the state)


    is an indication that they then also have $40,000 a year to spend on a marching band program? Per year?


    If you view that as a "hole" in my argument, then you don't know much about public schools. Technology and curricular instruction will ALWAYS be funded more than fine arts. ALWAYS.


    Maybe things are different at private schools.


    robes- I think you are missing the point I was trying to make. Try the paragraph that starts out: "Now Limestone's band is rising...." Or more specifically the second sentence.
    I'm afraid the paragraph you are referring to just isn't an accurate depiction of how most schools seem to work. I know of a number of programs that have become very successful without much money, or an increase in funding over the years, and the schools still want to take more money away from those successful programs. At most high schools, the band can be very successful, but they will never spend as much money per child in band, as they do the athletics. This is sad because this is tax payer money and should be spent fairly and evenly. Also, music will create a stronger academic environment....sports do not.


    If schools want better test scores, even out the spending between athletics and music and the arts. I'm confident that it would be money better spent.


    Basically, most administrations don't really care if the band is competitive or successful...they just want a pep band at halftime (only referring to Illinois, I know other states do care about the success of the marching and all music programs)

  2. Limestone is a rising central Illinois program. They have about 110 kids or so. They're been getting better. They have a small staff that isn't there every day, and is done when band is done. They have no winter guard (school and parents can't afford it). They have no percussion director or full time guard staff. I don't even think they have an assistant band director.


    Are you really honestly going to tell me that you don't "see the advantages" that MC has over a program like this?


    Just want to mention that the bolded part describes EXACTLY Marian circa 1981 or so.


    Who's to say what Limestone is or isn't capable of over the next decade or so? Best of luck to them and all programs in IL -- there's no telling what combination of school, director, approach, and luck will produce the next "advantaged" powerhouse.

    I honestly don't know why I am doing this today. It is seems to be neverending. Here is the staff from Limestone's own website:


    Band Director

    Assistant Band Director

    Colorguard person

    2 Drumline people

    2 Woodwinds people

    2 Low Brass people


    That would be 9 total "staff". For 110 kids that doesn't sound too too bad numberwise. Mind you, I don't know who these people are or if they do this as volunteers or teachers of other subjects in the school. What I do know is these people are not sitting around staring at each other as evidenced by they way their band looked and sounded. All I am trying to get across to you is that it seems most of the bands out there have a "staff" so I don't see how you think Marian has any kind of advantage because they have a "staff" too. I never said we were some pauper band. I just said I think you would be surprised at how much they do with the "resources" that they have and I don't think you have a realistic understanding of what they are. Just alot of speculation and "I heard this" kind of stuff.


    For the recruiting that you like to keep mentioning I really don't understand it. Let's see Mr. Bimm goes into peoples kitchen and sits down with the families to discuss the possibility of going to Marian to play in the band. In the NCAA I've heard of coaches giving their prospects things like cars. That wouldn't work here because the kid is only 13 or 14. I know he offers them 2 Science credits and one English credit to come to the school and play for the band. Sounds pretty goofy, doesn't it? But that is what you are suggesting. Actually I don't know that I have ever heard of any coach/director doing any kind of recruiting like that for high school. College yes, but high school?? I'm sure if I'm wrong about that you will let me know.

    As far as I know, and I could be wrong, these staff people are not necessarily there for the season. I believe some of these people are primarily there for band camp, and the occasional rehearsal. They aren't there for daily rehearsals, and not even all evening rehearsals. To me that is one way Limestone is probably different than Marian.

  3. It was a standstill....


    I'm aware. It's still a testament to their program, no?

    No would ever debate the quality of how that band can play. They are one of the best concert programs in the state, but it isn't a good comparison in marching band when it is a standstill...it means little.

  4. Hersey IS a great band, no doubt about that. All the same, no offence but Hersey beating Prospect at U of I really doesn't say anything about them. It's still U of I.


    How about them beating three ISU finalists at Prospect?

    It was a standstill....

  5. can parents help kids with props during a show? and is there a penalty line for back field??

    sorry a little random but i was curious.

    There are some rules...but it depends on the contest. Also it is usually up to the timing and penalties judge to allow a parent to help if there is an issue.

  6. Want to make ISU a "no one argues" show? Throw everyone's name in a hat and random draw times. Make sure the judges don't ever know the class of the band, or even the name before the sheet drops in front of them.

    It'll never happen for reasons previously stated in this thread. But it would be nice.

    Wow I would really with this to happen. Would it stop the arguments, the why did or why didn'ts, it should haves, etc. I think not. There's always going to be something to argue about but that is the beauty of this board. Anyway, this idea would really be awesome if it would ever happen. Talk about ... surprise, surprise, surprise!!!!
    I'm pretty sure this will never happen. The reasons why have been discussed before....even if not everyone agrees with them.

  7. why is this not showing up for me? i click it and it goes to a blank page.
    same for me.... and I'm sad to hear Morton scored so low.
    I wouldn't worry about that to much...they showed where they belonged in finals. The prelims scoring had some clear inflation...but watching those 12 in finals it is a fair comparison.

  8. Morton was pretty good this year. Apparently, from resources, I heard they lost overall to DGS. But of course, since in top class scores, they go to finals. I also want to say I was shocked by LWE placement on finals. They did a great job. I enjoyed NN show. I had to say I focused more on the silent story then the band, ha. Congrats to lockport and Bloomington and LWC who few thought would not make it, great job. Are they going to post reviews on this site like so at Lake Park?
    I think you are missing the point of what some posters are trying to say. In prelims Morton very well may have been behind DGS....however, based on their finals placement they demonstrated that they should have been a top 10 in the first place. Basically, they think had Morton performed in a 5A or 6A time slot they would have been top 10 in prelims and none of us would be having this conversation.


    I would have to completely agree with this sentiment. This doesn't take away from what DGS or anybody else did in prelims. It just shows some of the flaws in how the contest is set up from a logistics standpoint.


    1A through 3A are at a disadvantage in general. We don't have a climate controlled environment like the dome for Indiana State Finals. So when you try to judge throughout a day across classes when the weather was vastly better for all the 4A-6A bands, it is almost impossible to compare. The judges try to take that into account, but it can be difficult.


    For the record, I do think DGS should have been one of the finalists.


    This is also why I think some states don't do a judge across all the classes sort of contest. I personally like it here at ISU. It is fun to pit the big schools agains the smaller etc. If you just judge across 1 class at a time to award a class title however, the conditions are going to be reasonably similar for those groups.


    Basically, I don't think those who "beat" said earlier bands can read to much into it, but enjoy that particular result for what it is. However, the finals results should make some people do a double take as to the number management throughout the day. Essentially....if a group late in the day was a top ten ahead of DGS and then say Morton beat that band in Finals, it suggests where DGS might have fallen had they also been in finals...just a thought.


    For the record, I think DGS should have made finals.

  9. Quoting limited to 3 levels deep

    I honestly cannot believe you just made that statement.....
    I'm actually going to try to extend the proverbial olive branch here by positively spinning Ahelge's comments:


    I'm thinking what he meant was that by getting beat so badly at ISU, the Dunlap band focused and worked on their show so they could have a better performance at U of I, not that he was suggesting the results at U of I were in any way grounded in reality.


    I totally agree, the only two I can possibly see taking Morton, would be LWW and Dunlap, however I don't think they will this year. Again crazy things happen at ISU, so I am just throwing in room, for the unnormal weather that could happen, or just Morton has a bad Prelim and LWW or Dunlap has a great one, idk. Again I totally agree with Morton is pretty much a lock, however I am just leaving room.


    I'd say that 2A and 3A are almost 99% locks. Limestone is a good program, but the gap between Limestone and Marian Catholic will probably be about the same as the gap between Morton and whomever is 2nd in 2A. If I was forced to bet $10,000 on any class winner, these would be the two I'd consider....easy money.


    I'd say next easiest would be 6A...Lake Park is probably a 70% lock. There's some quality bands in that class, though...


    4A would be next, in my opinion. I'd say this class odds are 50% LWN, 35% Bloomington, 15% UT.


    1A would be next, 60% Eureka, 40% IVC.


    As far as I'm concerned, 5A could be a toss-up. 50% LWE, 50% Prospect.


    If I was betting money, those would be the odds I'd give. Maybe I should do that....marching band bookie!! :lol:

    I'm in...great idea ;)

  10. Dunlap?? Just sayin.
    I'd say Dunlap should first have the goal of not getting 17 pointed by Morton, like they did last year at ISU.


    Baby steps.

    I think we responded well from that at U of I last year.
    I honestly cannot believe you just made that statement.....

  11. i agree with the different panels, but will severly miss the percussion and color guard judges at our "state champs"

    Granted, they don't matter to the overall score, but it was something the kids in the sections hoped for and worked for

    The color guard and percussion sections should be working to be apart of the entire package...not an entity of its own within a production. I would think and hope that the goal would be to produce success for the entire marching band, not just one section. These two sections are already judged in more then one caption. You dont have "best clarinets" or "outstanding trombones." Good music and visual judges will be making apropos comments about all sections. Need or want specialized feedback on your percussion or color guard...hire a clinician or participate in the indoor portion of these activities.
    You are missing a very key part of this activity...education.


    Percussion as a whole has a vast array of tecniques and large variety of instrumentation. It's far more to it then slamming sticks into a head.


    I really don't feel that it's right to adjudicate a line based on balance within the ensemble alone. Which is what is going to happen. now that should be a part equation but there is far more to a good drumline then that. A good drumline also executes their book both musically and rythmically. Has an understanding and displays the proper technique orthe instrument they are playing. And executes a challenging book. That's a good drumline.


    I'm sorry but I can't see a panel of judges that are going to be off the field accuratly scoring a drumline. Especially if there isn't someone qualified to make percussion comments on the panel.


    These drumlines have been scored a certain way all year and now it's going to be changed? It's a little bogus if ask me.


    They should have just axed the captions. That's more or less what they did. The score will have zero merit and the tapes will have zero constructive comments to help improve the kids as performers


    There is just to much going on from a technique level to accuratly score these captions. I'm going to say it right now the drumlines will be placed in relatively the exact order of the music scores are and are going to be directly related to the size of the hornline because it has a better chance of balancing.

    The drumlines aren't going to be "placed" this year. They will effect the score via the percussion caption on the individual music sheet, as well as by their contribution to the entire musical performance on the music ensemble sheet.


    They are approaching the show a little more like BOA. Just Music, Visual, and GE caption awards.


    If they were still giving a percussion caption award, but not using a separate judge for it, I would be annoyed as well.

  12. Quoting limited to 3 levels deep

    Would Prospect count as newcomer? This is just their second year (I think).
    This is their second year after about a fifteen year hiatus


    My prediction: The state title will come back to Illinois

    What does that even mean?

  13. Here are my thoughts



    1 Herscher 68,1

    2 Eureka 65.1

    3 IVC 61.2


    1 Morton 79.2

    2 Lincoln-Way West 67,5

    3 Geneseo 63.1


    1 Marian Catholic 95.25

    2 Limestone 76.9

    3 Lemont 74.2


    1 Lincoln-Way North 89.1

    2 United Township 77.9

    3 Romeoville 77.0


    1 Lincoln-Way East 91.2

    2 Prospect 87.1

    3 Wheaton Warrenville South 79.1


    1 Lake Park 93.4

    2 Victor J Andrew 86.8

    3 Downers Grove South 85.2



    1 Marian Catholic 96.1

    2 Lake Park 94.2

    3 Lincoln-Way East 93.1

    4 Lincoln-Way North 90.6

    5 Prospect 89.1

    6 Victor J Andrew 88.4

    7 Downers Grove South 85.1

    8 Morton 80.3

    9 Naperville North 80.1(I wouldn't be surprised if they DON'T make finals... They are VERY dirty, but their name is going to carry them)

    10 Warren Township 79.3

    11 Herscher 70.3


    I think this will be pretty close... and I wouldn't be surprised if the last two spots in finals weren't interchangeable with Lockport, WWS, and Wabonsie Valley.


    This is REALLY a day I wish ISU ran the same style as BOA (i.e. mix up the order and don't put them in any specific order for prelims)



    I'll be honest. I don't usually comment on predictions too much because they are just predictions. However, your numbers and spreads don't make much sense based on what has been going on this season. Please note that I'm not really taking issue with the bands you are picking, but the crazy high scores, and huge distances between groups that were close all season long.


    For instance. VJA and Morton have been close each meeting. In fact, if I recall the results correctly, Morton gained a little ground each time they met up. Now however, VJA is 8 points ahead of Morton. That is a huge spread...and then there is DGS that you have 5 points ahead of Morton, and NN for that matter. I know VJA and DGS have improved, but everyone has. Those spreads are saying that groups went from comparable to no comparison in a couple weeks....


    So....here is what I think. The highest score will be about 86, if they are actually paying attention to the scoring rubrics.


    The scoring spread from 10th to 1st should be about a 73 to an 86, with most of the 9th through 5 scores being within 4 points....then a jump of a few points to the 4th place score.


    Something like this:


    1. 86

    2. 84

    3. 83

    4. 82

    5. 79

    6. 78

    7. 77

    8. 76.5

    9. 75

    10. 73

    11. 65


    Just my 2 cents....

  14. Plently of bands have slipped out of finals for a year and then come back strong. If not getting in to finals time is that destructive, I think there are bigger issues to worry about in the band program. Not that they don't have to right to be upset, but it should only make you more motivated the next year.

  15. Announcement was clearly that Hersey won the Governors trophy at U of I--had a huge leap over everyone in the parade category. And congrats to them. I know they worked very hard this year.


    Thought Prospect put on a very clean and winning show--have tons of pix that I reviewed after seeing a previous comment--and disagree--very nice field show. Predict they will hold up well at ISU. Wish that Hersey and Macomb were also going so that they, along with Prospect, could be compared using a more normal BOA type scoring system which also includes field judges.


    Congrats in order for Macomb too. WOW!!! Did anyone else notice that they actually ranked first overall with both the highest field score (91.6) and the highest combined total (364.95) (vs Hersey's 89 field/363 total) Even though they are class B, they really got a higher score than anyone, so my hat is off to them!


    The whole awards portion of the show was horribly rushed because they were behind schedule for the "big wedding" that was planned for the same day using the stadium. Frankly, it was very sad that the kids were given such treatment after dedicating so much. Hope the school rethinks their booking policy. Bride and groom taking pictures on the field while a band was performing--are you kidding?! How distracting is that? There was some really loud rock music blaring nearby the field that totally overshadowed the bands' quieter interludes--that went on for many performances. Suggest getting security on that pronto next time.


    It appeared that the band students and families were second class citizens yesterday--the announcer actually told the drum majors to "Come ON!" to get to the line up faster, even though they were standing waiting to be told. Then the Illini drum majors had to run to try to pass out the trophies to keep up with the speedy announcer--I thought they might pass out too! It probably isn't the U of I band depts fault that this wedding was booked, but I hope they can have enough influence to prevent this type of fiasco again in the future.

    That comparison cannot be made. It is a different panel of judges, and the bands are not being judges across all the classes during the day.

  16. My St. Louis predictions:


    1)85.65 Marian Catholic

    2)84.75 Broken Arrow, OK

    3)83.35 Centerville, OH

    4)82.45 Paul Laurence Dunbar, KY

    5)81.85 William Mason, OH

    6)80.85 Union, OK

    7)80.30 Owasso, OK

    8)79.65 Lafayette, LA

    9)78.65 Irondale, MN

    10)78.30 Blue Springs, MO

    11)77.85 Rosemount, MN

    12)76.95 Morton

    13)76.30 Oakville, MO

    14)75.65 Eden Prairie, MN


    Music: Marian Catholic

    Visual: Broken Arrow

    GE: Marian Catholic



    This is interesting, and I pretty much think this is a possible finals line up. No O'fallon not on this list is a little strange with their early season results at 1 BOA regional and being right with Blue Springs at another competition.


    Although, at this level of competition, who knows what will happen. The groups that are in the mid to upper 70's are almost interchangeable depending on the day and judging panel!